On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Eric Rescorla wrote: > I'm not really following you here. I've read the stated contract > terms and I'm concerned that they prohibit activities which may > reasonably occur during IETF. Are you saying: > > (a) No, they don't prohibit those activities. > (b) Yes, they do prohibit those activities, but they won't actually > be enforced that way. > > If you're saying (a), I'd be interested in seeing your analysis of > why that is the case, since my own analysis indicates the contrary. > Indeed, it seems to me that this very discussion we are having now > (which clearly is an appropriate IETF discussion), violates a number > of the terms. What I am saying is (c) that you have listed a set of topics and concluded that they violate the contract, I don't agree. I have stated what I believe to be the INTENTION of the language in the contract, namely prevent political protest at the meeting. I have now attended 68 out of 75 IETF meetings, but I have never seen "political protest" of the form that I think might lead to a meeting being shut down in China. Yes, we are a rowdy bunch at times, and we discuss a lot of technical things that spill over into layer 9, but let me repeat what I said earlier: There is no way the host, with the understanding of the government, would invite us to meet in China if they expected us to: a) Not discuss our usual topics b) Stage a political rally The offending hotel clause, simply put, is a reminder of b. > > I'm a little puzzled by "stay home". It's not like the world > is divided into "China" and "Home". In what way are Hiroshima, > Anaheim, and Maastricht, to pick three random examples any more > "Home" than China? I thought this was clear, but: Staying home for any value of home would mean not attending a meeting in China if it were held there, or more generally not holding the meeting there. There are already some people who have said they would "stay" home if we held a meeting there, based on principle or based on what I will characterize as "fear of consequences". My personal belief, and the belief of many of have attended meetings in China is that the fear is unfounded. Ole _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf