Mike, "That discussion could not be had at an IETF in the PRC." That's YOUR interpretation. Obviously the IAOC, or at least speaking for myself only, do not believe this is true. If we have to change the "normal content" of an IETF meeting in order to meet in a given location, then I fully agree that we should not meet in such a place. As I've said many times already, there is a state law in place and the hotel has reminded us of this by inserting the clause (which the HOST not the IETF/IAOC or ISOC) will be signing. We can certainly agree that the language is broad and that it seems to give a lot of power to the hotel, but that's likely because this is generic language that is inserted into the contract to protect the business interests of the hotel (I'm not defending it, just an observation). The language in question is not intended to curb our speech, or make us worry about what we can say in the course of doing normal IETF business. I am sure it wasn't even designed with a group like the IETF in mind. I know that you can choose to read it that way and I understand your right to object to the language on principle, but I have to tell you in all honesty that unless someone decides to score a political point by doing something really "stupid" there is nothing to worry about. I further predict that IF such a stupid act were to take place, there would be plenty of warning, negotiation and so on rather than swift action. Please try to keep in mind that (various organizations in) China has been wanting to host an IETF meeting since 1997. One organization has finally been given government approval to do so. This is a Big Deal for them. Do you really think the Chinese government is looking for an excuse to make an example of a bunch of geeks meeting in a hotel and embarrass the local host in the process? I don't think so. Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: ole@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf