Hi Ole - You actually are answering questions I didn't ask. What I asked was "which IETF meetings did you find problematic and why"? One of the reasons I'm asking is because of your IAOC membership. I'm just curious what your thresholds are for travel pain (and how and maybe even why they differ from others on the list). Thanks for clarifying the time in Japan to Yokohama - it was a while back and I'm not surprised I was off by a 1/2 hour. Of what I've read so far, John Levine's note was probably the most helpful on understanding the train pain for this trip. To respond to your comment that this group believes that "train" == "pain" - its not that exactly, but it is the number of changes and segments and delays and connections for each and a general unfamiliarity with each of the destination train systems Speaking for myself, I'm perfectly happy taking the train if there are a) lots of schedule possibilities to match up with the airplane - after flying for 10-24 hours the last thing I want to do is sit in a train station waiting room for 2-3 hours and b) that (a) doesn't require me to spend 3 hours changing trains in a system I'm not familiar with and that I might not travel again for years if ever and c) getting there by air is either impossible or not timely. I know how to travel in the air system and I can figure out the connections well in advance - the same has not always been the case for trains in the destination countries and at least once I boarded a train that wasn't going where I needed to go (fortunately, I realized the error in time) because of poor signage, and local spelling that didn't match what I'd researched. This was 10-12 years back, and the Internet has improved the availability of information quite a bit - but still the ground truth of the train station is not always immediately perceivable to a traveler who hasn't been there before. For this trip the questions have mostly been "why Maastricht and not someplace with an airport" and I still don't think we've gotten a great answer on this. E.g. why didn't the IAOC go looking for another venue that met the "close to airport" criteria? Mike At 02:58 AM 5/25/2009, Ole Jacobsen wrote: >Mike, > >Why is it harder, i.e., "more problematic" to fly to Amsterdam (assume >for the sake of the argument that this is one hop) and then take ONE >train to Maastrich from the airport train station, compared to me >flying SFO-ORD wait an hour and then fly ORD-MSP? > >The "3 changes" was assuming you flew to FRANKFURT which is what *I* >said *I* might do because *I* have a non-stop flight all the way from >SFO to FRA and a favorite airport hotel there. This has nothing to do >with what the average attendee will or should do. The train from >Amsterdam airport to Maastricht is a single journey. > >For the record, Yokohama is at least 90 minutes from Narita (the >official Narita Express time to Tokyo is 60 minutes). Average travel >time might approach 120 minutes, which compares to the Dusseldorf >to Maastricht time mentioned by someone else. > >It seems to me that the moment someone said "train" this whole >discussion descended into "problematic" when in reality train travel >is far more convenient, inexpensive etc when you're not in the US. > >I've been told I can fly non-stop to Minneapolis, to which I replied >"not on our preferred carrier". > >Ole > >Ole J. Jacobsen >Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal >Cisco Systems >Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 >E-mail: ole@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj > > >On Mon, 25 May 2009, Michael StJohns wrote: > >> At 04:44 PM 5/24/2009, Ole Jacobsen wrote: >> >I would >> >hardly characterize a 3-4 hour train journey as "problematic" if you >> >consider what other venues the IETF historically has used. >> >> Hi Ole - >> >> That's a 3-4 hour train journey with 3 changes (and a cab ride at >> the end? not sure where the venue is relative to the train >> station). >> >> Having been to all of the IETF venues except Stockholm, I'm unclear >> to which venues you might be referring. Could you clarify? As far >> as I can recall, the Yokohama trip was the only one any great >> distance from an airport and the train pretty much went straight >> there (e.g. no "3 changes") in an hour or so with trains every 30 >> minutes or so. There was a reasonable length cab ride at the end. >> London had a train as well, but shorter and a short walk at the end. >> >> I literally can't think of a single venue we've been at that is >> anywhere near this far from a national/international class airport. >> I also can't think of any venue where the last hop from the airport >> required more than one change - and that was the Yokohama train/taxi >> switch. >> >> So which ones and why did you consider them problematic? >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf