--On Thursday, 13 November, 2008 08:18 -0800 Dave CROCKER <dhc2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> I think a lot of us had a pretty good idea which DNSBL is >> usually the one in question when people are complaining.... > > > The difficulty is that the current line of argument is that > because some DNSBLs are operated badly, DNSBLs are bad. > > For any interesting capability, there will always be some bad > actors using it. So the argument that, therefore, the > capability is unworthy of standardization is problematic. No, Dave, the argument is that there is no established standard (sic) of practice that differentiates between badly-operated DNSBLs and well-operated ones and between appropriate and inappropriate applications of those lists. Although perhaps I'm wrong, I assume that no one would make a serious claim that the use or non-use of particular data formats (i.e., the document in question) would be very significant in making that determination. If there were a BCP on the table that would permit us to talk about DNSRBLs that conform and those that don't, rather than about subjective opinions of "behaving badly", we would, IMO, be having a rather different discussion. If we were talking about putting together a WG here, I believe that the community would insist on such a BCP as its first output. That would give the community an opportunity to have a serious and focused discussion about criteria for good behavior. Perhaps this topic is so emotional that such a discussion would be impossible, but at least there would be hope. However, if I can summarize the one thing that people with a _very_ broad range of opinions that conclude in "don't standardize this document now" seem to have in common, it is an objection to standardization of any of this without clear and documented agreements about acceptable practices and careful documentation about the problems and risks that can occur when those practices are not followed (or even if they are). IMO, that generic objection is well within IETF norms. YMMD, of course. john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf