I wrote this because of a discussion that happened during behave at the last IETF meeting in Vancouver. There was a presentation in the behave working group on NAT ALG for SCTP - when run natively over IP - and I found the entire conversation surreal. The entire problem would have been moot if SCTP had been designed to run over UDP and not IP. So apparently its not obvious to everyone that you cannot design protocols natively ontop of IP. -Jonathan R. Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Hi, Hannes, > > I can't answer for Jonathan, but I wondered the same thing, and decided that > the answer was probably one of > > - "well, if we all know this, what are we doing differently now that we know > it?", or > > - "the GOOD news is that the wasp waist-hourglass is no longer HTTP" > [RFC3205], or > > - "the GREAT news is that the wasp waist-hourglass isn't Skype (yet)". > > Not sure which, of course :-) > > Thanks, > > Spencer, with apologies to Keith Moore [RFC3205} > > >> Hi Jonathan, >> Hi all, >> >> I read through the document and was not quite sure why you wrote it. >> Everyone knows this already. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: I-D Action:draft-rosenberg-internet-waist-hourglass-00.txt >> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:30:01 -0800 (PST) >> From: Internet-Drafts@xxxxxxxx >> Reply-To: internet-drafts@xxxxxxxx >> To: i-d-announce@xxxxxxxx >> >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> Title : UDP and TCP as the New Waist of the Internet Hourglass >> Author(s) : J. Rosenberg >> Filename : draft-rosenberg-internet-waist-hourglass-00.txt >> Pages : 8 >> Date : 2008-02-11 >> >> One of the fundamental design principles of the Internet is that IP >> represents a common intermediate protocol layer, linking together a >> variety of link layer technologies underneath with a large number of >> applications on top. When drawn graphically, this can be show as an >> hourglass with IP in the middle. The preponderence of NATs and >> firewalls in the Internet has changed this reality, such that UDP and >> TCP are now the waist of the hourglass. This document discusses this >> change and describes its implications for protocol and application >> design. >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rosenberg-internet-waist-hourglass-00.txt >> >> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> i-d-announce-request@xxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the body of >> the message. >> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> to change your subscription settings. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> "get draft-rosenberg-internet-waist-hourglass-00.txt". >> >> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> >> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> >> Send a message to: >> mailserv@xxxxxxxxx >> In the body type: >> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-rosenberg-internet-waist-hourglass-00.txt". >> >> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> how to manipulate these messages. >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf mailing list >> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 499 Thornall St. Cisco Fellow Edison, NJ 08837 Cisco, Voice Technology Group jdrosen@xxxxxxxxx http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (408) 902-3084 http://www.cisco.com _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf