Makes sense to me. Changes applied in my edit buffer as proposed by Harald below. Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of > Harald Tveit Alvestrand > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 14:26 > To: ietf@xxxxxxxx > Subject: Discussion: #786 Section 2.2, 3.1 and 6: Inconsistent > description of the budget process > > > [I'm trying to get closure on all the tickets, as usual.... > not in priority > order....] > > Margaret commented: > > > There are three different descriptions of the IASA budget > process (one > > principle and two later sections), and they don't seem to > agree with each > > other about what role the ISOC BoT plays in the budget > process and/or > > who approves the IASA budget. > > I actually think the three descriptions aren't inconsistent, > because they > describe different parts of the process..... but agree that > the text is not > crystal clear..... > > Under "principles": > > > >> 3. The IAD and IAOC, in cooperation with the ISOC President/CEO and > >> staff, shall develop an annual budget for the IASA. The budget > >> must clearly identify all expected direct and indirect > >> expenditures related to the IASA. ISOC, through its normal > >> procedures, shall evaluate and adopt the IASA budget as part of > >> ISOC's own budget process and commit to ensuring funds to support > >> the approved budget. > > > > This paragraph in the principles section says "ISOC, > through its normal > > procedures, shall evaluate and adopt the ISOC budget". I > think that we > > have a general understanding that the ISOC BoT (as part of > their fiduciary > > responsibilities) will need to fully understand and _approve_ the > > entire ISOC budget (including the IASA portions). Although this > > principle mentions an "approved budget", there is no indication of > > who approves it until much later in the document and the later > > two references are not equivalent (see below). > > I think the principle here is relatively clear: > - IAOC must agree to it > - ISOC must agree to it > Given the responsibilities I see assigned to the two bodies, > I read this as: > - IAOC must agree that the budget fulfils the IETF > requirements for the year > - ISOC must agree that the budget is sound from a financial viewpoint > (reasonable estimates of income and expenses, and reasonable > bottom line) > > I think it is reasonable to change "evaluate and adopt" to > "evaluate and > approve". > > >From section 3.1, "IAD responsibilities": > > >> The IAD prepares an annual budget, which is subject to review and > >> approval by the IAOC. The IAD is responsible for presenting this > >> budget to the ISOC Board of Trustees, as part of ISOC's annual > >> financial planning process. > (inserted break for disposition reasons) > >> The IAOC is responsible for ensuring the > >> budget's suitability for meeting the IETF community's > administrative > >> needs, but the IAOC does not bear fiduciary responsibility > for ISOC. > >> The ISOC Board of Trustees therefore needs to review and understand > >> the budget and planned activity in enough detail to carry out their > >> fiduciary responsibility properly. The IASA publishes its complete > >> budget to the IETF community each year. > > > > Following up on my comment above... This section indicates that > > the IAOC approves the budget, but it doesn't mention ISOC BoT > > approval, just that the ISOC Board would "review and understand" > > the IASA budget. > > I don't think this is exactly right - the IAOC reviews and > approves the > budget proposal that the IAD prepares, and in the process of > adapting the > budget to ISOC's overall budget, it will continue to review > and approve the > changed version - it "is responsible", after all. > I think this section is (properly) focused on what the IAD > does, so it > shouldn't be the place where we say what the ISOC BoT does. > > In section 6. IASA budget process, we have: > > >> September 1: The ISOC Board of Trustees approves the > budget proposal > >> provisionally. During the next 2 months, the budget may be > >> revised to be integrated in ISOC's overall budgeting process. > > > > Here it does indicate that the ISOC BoT will need to approve the > > IASA budget, and that the budget presented by the IAOC/IAD may > > be revised to fit into ISOC's overall budget. I think that this > > should be reflected in the sections I've noted above, or you > > should include less detail above and reference this section > > instead. > > And also: > > November 1: Final budget to the ISOC Board for approval. > > I think this is clear. > > I think most of the apparent inconsistency here can be removed by > rephrasing the text from section 2.2 to be clear that it's > describing the > IAD's responsibilites, for example by changing: > > >>> The IAOC is responsible for ensuring the > >>> budget's suitability for meeting the IETF community's > administrative > >>> needs, but the IAOC does not bear fiduciary > responsibility for ISOC. > >>> The ISOC Board of Trustees therefore needs to review and > understand > >>> the budget and planned activity in enough detail to carry > out their > >>> fiduciary responsibility properly. The IASA publishes its complete > >>> budget to the IETF community each year. > > into: > > As described elsewhere in this document, the IAOC is > responsible for > ensuring the budget's suitability for meeting the IETF community's > administrative needs, but the IAOC does not bear fiduciary > responsibility > for ISOC. The ISOC Board of Trustees therefore needs to review and > understand the budget and planned activity in enough > detail to carry out > their fiduciary responsibility properly. > The IAD is responsible for managing this process of review > and approval. > The IAD sees to it that the IASA publishes its complete approved > budget to the IETF community each year. > > (Also added "approved" to the last line - while I don't see > anything wrong > with circulating preliminary budget proposals if appropriate, > I think it's > the approved budget that is the critical thing to have published.) > > Makes sense - as a "sharpening" of the description, not intended as a > change? > > Harald > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf