Hi. Summary: Four weeks? When we sometimes run only three months between meetings? Some years ago, the secretariat and IESG agreed on an I-D posting deadline about a week before IETF began, in the hope of getting all submitted drafts posted before WGs needed them for review and discussion. Prior to that rule, the last drafts to arrive either slipped through the cracks or were posted after we had started meeting, which did no one any good. As the load of incoming drafts increased, still with a completely manual process, the posting deadline was shifted back another week, to be two weeks before meetings began, and then a rule was imposed (for which I fear I'm at least partially responsible) requiring that initial-version drafts be posted yet a week earlier -- three weeks out. The theory behind the latter was the load continued to rise and that initial versions often took longer to process and confirm than second and subsequent versions, so it made sense to let the additional time burden fall on them. Such deadlines, considerably in advance of IETF meetings, are an impediment to objectives we claim for the standards process -- opportunities for people to get as much work as possible done outside the face to face meetings, and documents in hand that are timely enough that people who do not attend meetings in person can effectively express their comments. Over the last few IETF meetings, processing has become more automated, or the Secretariat has become more efficient in other ways. The typical time to get an I-D posted other than in the pre- and post-meeting rush has dropped to one working day and has sometimes even been less. And, during the rush, the queue has often cleared early enough that consideration of shortening the deadlines/ lead time would be in order. Instead, a new rule has apparently crept into the posting deadlines, with no community discussion or announcement other than in those deadline announcements. The rule, in this meeting's form, is that "As always, all initial submissions (-00) with a filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced. WG Chair approval must be received by Monday, October 11 at 9:00 AM ET." First of all, this isn't "as always". The rule requiring explicit WG Chair approval is fairly recent. But, more important, we now have a situation in which WG drafts -- presumably the most important documents for the face to face meetings-- now require formal naming, authorization, and approval a full four weeks before the first IETF meeting sessions. Remembering that we have sometimes had meetings as close as three months apart, but even with four months being the nominal separation, this is a _big_ chunk of time. On the three month schedule, and allowing a couple of weeks post-meetings for things to stabilize, people to get caught up, and new discussions to start, it could give a WG only six weeks to have a discussion that could generate a new document for discussion and agree on that document before cutoffs impose, at least, names that make those documents harder to find and track. As we continue to discuss problems and issues that get in the way of our getting effective work done, it seems to me that this is a new one that should be added to the list. Also, in the context of administrative reorganization, I would find it helpful, and others might too, to understand where this new requirement came from: (1) If from the Secretariat by unilateral action, it is perhaps a symptom of difficulties with the Secretariat that require some change in models. (2) If from the IESG, it perhaps should be examined as a procedural change made without an announcement to the community and opportunity for comment -- precisely the type of change that the "July14" draft was intended to prevent in the future by providing a more efficient way to get such changes made _with_ community involvement and (at least default) authorization. Finally, if four weeks is really necessary, I suggest that we are in need of firm rules about minimum meeting spacing. john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf