On 23 Mar 2024, at 8:48, Keith Moore wrote:
On 3/23/24 04:46, S Moonesamy wrote:
At 09:22 PM 22-03-2024, John C Klensin wrote:
I think where we disagree is that I'm at least a little more
concerned about working groups that become too homogeneous and
resistant to "outsider" views and input. [...]
[...] So I see "AD must approve" as a possible
small way to alert an AD that someone out of the ordinary
might be going on. I'd be almost as happy with "WG Chair can
decide, but AD must be notified in a timely way and has the
right to override the decision".1. A WG Chair decides to allow an I-D to be added a day
before a meeting.2. There isn't any complaint about the decision.
A decision made a day before a meeting doesn't allow enough time to see whether there would be complaints.
Completely agree with Keith that making these decisions at the last minute is not acceptable.
But where I disagree with John is with the notion that these artificial rules and procedures address the issue in any meaningful way. Insofar as there are groups that are "too homogenous and resistant to 'outsider' views and input" (and I don't doubt there are some), that's a cultural problem. It's caused by chairs who are not sufficiently sensitive to the issue (or the ADs appointing them), or the charter not being clear about bringing in the right amount of well-rounded input, or chairs who are not pushing back on their WGs, or an IESG or IAB not paying attention and giving appropriate guidance, or other similar possible causes. A relatively arbitrary rule or procedure that throws up a road block for a train that's already drifting off the rails doesn't do much. At best, it's simply an annoyance, a barrier that folks will simply route around or plow through; at worst, it makes things worse by removing responsibility from chairs to make thoughtful decisions.
If the culture of the organization is shifting away from principles that many of us think are core and foundational, that stinks. Shifting back to those principles is hard and takes serious conversations and work. Quick "fixes" (that I don't think do much fixing) aren't the way.
pr
--
Pete Resnick https://www.episteme.net/
All connections to the world are tenuous at best
