On 15 Jul 2020, at 12:57, Scott O. Bradner wrote:
is there something I missed where the chair said that was happening
(Henrik would be able to vote on procedures or candidates?)
It sounded from the chair's note of Tue, 14 Jul 2020 21:08:28 +0000 that
she thought that the assorted additional folks in question were already
appointed as advisors. Sam pointed out that if they were advisors, they
would have the ability to vote on procedures, and therefore their
appointment as advisors ought to be approved by the voting members.
(Nobody thought they could vote on candidates, but only that they would
be part of the deliberations.) After Sam's note, Mary, Victor, and you
replied with defenses of Henrik being the tools advisor. That seemed
curious, since none of you addressed Sam's point, and nobody ever
suggested that Henrik shouldn't be tools advisor, which is why I
replied.
pr
On Jul 15, 2020, at 1:54 PM, Pete Resnick <resnick@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Nobody objected to Henrik (or anyone else) being the Tools Advisor,
or to any of the other non-8713-listed advisors being on NomCom. The
only concern is that the voting members and the 8713-listed
non-voting members need to explicitly decide whether or not they will
(a) participate in deliberations and (b) be able to vote on
procedural matters of the NomCom. The chair can't simply add
additional advisors who can vote to change the procedures of the
NomCom without the approval of the voting members of the NomCom.
pr
On 15 Jul 2020, at 11:27, Victor Kuarsingh wrote:
On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:09 AM Scott O. Bradner <sob@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Henrik has been tools advisor just about forever - well he was the
tools advisor back when I was on the IESG -
he came with the job as nomcom chair - I do not recall that previous
chairs specifically appointed him he was just "it"
but the key point is in the citation you provide
" advisor to participate in some or all of the deliberations of the
committee"
the tools advisor does not "participate in some or all of the
deliberations of the committee"
so is not covered under RFC 8713 section 4.3 - the chair has the
power to appoint advisors that
do not participate in some or all of the deliberations of the
committee as long as
the advisor has minimal contact with the confidential information the
nomcom collects
(and Henrik can be trusted with confidential information in any case
- he has been there & done that
I say 'move on, there is nothing to do here'
Having worked with him on Nomcom, I have no concerns with his
involvement as a tools advisor.
regards,
Victor K
Scott
On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Mary B <mary.h.barnes@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I'm very puzzled over the concern about Henrik as Tools Advisor. He
was tools advisor way back when I was Nomcom chair 2009-2010 and I
know it goes back at least to the one prior. He has been an
essential part of the process from that perspective. But, he did not
(and I assume still does not) participate in any deliberations at
all and as I recall he actually can't see any of the comments input
by the community. But, his role has a dramatic impact on the
ability of the nomcom to review the community input in the form
other than a bunch of emails and of course, his work also has
provided the community a nice tool so that we can provide that
input.
As far as other advisors, I will add that I do think it's important
that their roles are clear cut from the outset in terms of the scope
being providing input into the specific roles for the organization
they represent or in the case of Suresh on process aspects. There
had been Nomcoms where liaisons were more active, which I disagree
with, but it is up to the specific Nomcom in terms of how they take
input.
If the concern is that there will be lots of folks that can see your
input to the Nomcom, you can always provide input anonymously by
contacting the chair or a Nomcom member with whom you're comfortable
sharing.
Regards,
Mary..
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Samuel Weiler <weiler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2020, STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
I needed the tools advisor in place when I started the volunteer
process.
.....
I also asked Suresh to be an advisor, as permitted by RFC 8713.
My read of RFC8713 section 4.3 is that you are not premitted to
appoint advisors on your own. The relevant text is:
Any committee member may propose the addition of an advisor to
participate in some or all of the deliberations of the
committee.
The addition must be approved by the committee according to its
established voting mechanism.
I do not object to you having sought advice from Henrik and Suresh
up
to this point, but, as I wrote this morning, I hope that you will
propose these new advisors to the NomCom once it is seated and give
the NomCom (excluding the two proposed additions) the opportunity to
approve the additions (or not, as they deem appropriate).
I look forward to your confirmation that you will take this path.
-- Sam
From: Samuel Weiler
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 6:46 AM
On Tue, 14 Jul 2020, S Moonesamy wrote:
There is a special past-past chair advisor. The explanation for
that
is "this year is so strange". Making such an appointment was not
discussed during the evaluation of the document which was
published as
RFC 8788. There isn't any information about which
rule(s) was used to make that appointment.
The list at [1] also includes Henrik as a tools team advisor.
One might presume that the NomCom chair intends to propose both
additional advisors to the NomCom according to the usual process
in section
4.3 of RFC8713. It is odd to see them announced before the voting
memebers of NomCom are seated.
It is interesting how the number of non-voting NomCom members has
grown over time. This list has nine(!) non-voting members, and
that is
before the voting members have been seated and potentially added
more.
NomCom 2019 had 8. NomCom 2018 had 7. NomCom 2017 had 6.
NomComs 2016 and 2015 each had only 5. [2]
If I were a voting member of this NomCom, I would be concerned
about
being overwhelmed by advisors, particularly since the advisors get
a vote on
procedural matters, including the removal of voting NomCom
members..
-- Sam
[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/
[2] n.b. I'm looking at the lists at [1]. It is possible these
NomComs added
advisors that are not listed. I'm pretty sure NomCom
2015 added Henrik as an advisor.
--
Pete Resnick https://www.episteme.net/
All connections to the world are tenuous at best
