Responding to the thread since Barbara made her proposal (and a few messages before that) rather than to any individual message... (1) I really like Barbara's model. I think we could put a lot of time and energy into adding details and options and fine-tuning, but I suggest that we would be better off using it for IETF 106 in relatively simple form -- more or less the form in which she first proposed it-- and viewing it as an experiment from which we can try to learn. (2) Be really cautious about moving in the direction of annual membership fees -- especially if you have any concerns at all about corporate bean counters. For the reasons Joel gave, as well as what they are used to from working with other organizations (including other standards developers in the Internet and telecommunications spaces), requests to them for an annual membership fee for multiple participants are almost certain to morph into demands from them for corporate memberships so they can determine who to send to a given meeting at the reduced rate. For organizations large and well-off enough to have such bean counters, if they get the corporate memberships, it won't be long before they insist on seats on our financial management board or its nearest equivalent to be sure their money is being spent well. Those kinds of issues rarely come up with registration fees but, as soon it starts being an annual membership fee, it is out on the slippery slope. Also keep in mind that several of the companies who are sponsoring or authorizing enough employee participation in the IETF for an annual membership fee to add up to significant money are also making significant contributions to the IETF now in the form of donations and meeting sponsorships. Behaving in a way that the same bean counters might see as trying to squeeze them for fee revenue could easily lead to the sort of internal conversations that would cut those contributions off -- not a wise fiscal decision. (3) Even if we arrive at a satisfactory conclusion about this, I hope we don't lose sight of the underlying question of how far Jay's authority, or that of the LLC more generally, extends when it comes to changes that can affect the standards process rather than, e.g., determining the amount of fees that already exist. john
