Paul, PV> once thinking that smtp would be the right answer for a global population, PV> or now thinking that smtp can be saved if we can just make abuse expensive, PV> is indicative of designers who think that the only consumers are Just Like PV> Them And Their Friends. they were but aren't, and they won't ever be again! Unfortunately, casting the issue in terms of saving or discarding SMTP is also unhelpful. It makes sure that we debate lots of protocol details, without having any basic agreement on the more import usage and protection details that will drive the mundane technical choices. On the other hand, a relevant point about current operations, versus future operations, is how we move 100 million users. But again, that is best discussed in terms of the users and their usage, rather than the protocol details. So: What is this better service supposed to look like? How do we transition a very large installed base to it. Extra credit: The transition question has more to do with user motivation and choice than with technical engineering. d/ -- Dave Crocker <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <http://www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>, <fax:+1.866.358.5301>