Let me also try to keep this (relatively) short. I'm not good at this. :-) On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:29:49 +0200, peter sikking <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:> I take the vision as broad as it can be explained (it was phrased not so> specific for a reason), but not broader. That's certainly fine. But if you only check the comments that youhave made in the last two days in this thread, you will see that youhave emphasized several times the term "high-end". Specifically: 'High-end' is the word I want us to focus on.This means focusing only on a minority of GIMP users. And as I wroteearlier, I am convinced that it's the best thing to do as this is thebest way to have real progress. However, we should still be carefulabout what these improvements (or changes, in general) mean to themajority of our users (those who do not fit in the "high-end"definition). > > This> > is at best a small percentage of the current GIMP users. [...] But> > we have to acknowledge that the vision (or the way we use it) is> > targeted mainly at a minority of users. This minority is almost> > certainly the most interesting subset o> > I do not believe that. You do not believe that "this minority is the most interesting subset"or that it is a minority? Assuming the latter, I am sorry but Ibelieve that the vast majority of GIMP users are not high-end users.Most users do not use GIMP every day, probably not even every week. But the cumulative time that all those users spend using GIMP isprobably much larger than the time that the few experienced userswho need and use the high-end features spend with GIMP. So I wouldlike GIMP to focus on high-end features as much as possibleaccording to our vision. But if some of the required changes implya significant regression for the majority of the users, then weshould think twice about them. The changes can still be appliedeven if they add a cost for some users because it is impossible toplease everybody, but we should keep some balance and not alwaysfocus exclusively on the experienced users. > >> And I thought that we all understand that there is a> >> choice of several free software programs out there for> >> users who want to do simple red-eye removal from their> >> holiday jpegs.> >> > Unfortunately, until that choice really exists this is a moot point.> > we agreed at the vision meeting that the choice is there. This was mentioned, but there was some disagreement (well, at leastduring the part of the meeting that I attended - I missed thediscussions on the second day). There was certainly an agreement onthe fact that GIMP cannot do everything for everybody and that someother programs should fill the niches that we do not cover. But Idon't think that there was ever an agreement on the fact that thechoice is there (last year during the meeting, or even today). Icould not agree with that because there is no real choice among freesoftware for browsing and doing simple adjustments on holidaypictures. There is currently nothing that comes close to PhotoshopElements or even to the various simpler programs that come bundledwith most cameras. As I wrote, F-Spot is coming close for some features (and some ofthe important ones have only been added in the recent months), but itis still necessary to complement it with GIMP or Krita for someoperations such as correcting some errors with the clone tool, doingfiner color adjustments or just rotating the image a bit. Nothingvery fancy nor high-end, but this is still something that people useGIMP for. This may change in the future if F-Spot or others get better, but Idoubt that it is part of F-Spot's vision to include things such asour paint tools or transform tools. Yet this is something that someusers expect to find in Free Software because they can do that withthe "free" but proprietary stuff that they got with their cheappoint-and-shoot digital cameras. I just don't want to forget aboutthese users too early, even if they are not the ones we try toplease first. -Raphaël_______________________________________________Gimp-developer mailing listGimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
