On Tue, 2024-06-11 at 19:48 +0200, Marc Deop i Argemí wrote: > On Tuesday 11 June 2024 14:52:19 CEST Sérgio Basto wrote: > > I had enough with you an your attitude. You have been abusing the > good will > and temperament of many Fedora contributors for too long. Somebody > must put a > stop to your comments and behavior. > > > If you can't support X11 together with Wayland on boot.iso , why > > you > > want move to Wayland ? > > The explanation to this is very clearly explained in the == Detailed > Description === section > > it is stupid break Linux user experience just > > because Wayland is fancy , > > Refrain from calling our actions or (implicitly) our contributors > _stupid_ > I don't want that you deduce that. OK I 'll try be more inclusive BTW I confused you with user moceap. yeah I think try removing X11 is not right path that is my opinion. And you don't have the right of remove X11 software from Fedora . You aren't adding software, you are trying removing X11 and impose Wayland because, I think, you want that people test wayland, you think if people test more, the things will be fixed by them self but I don't think that is true, see the case of btrfs , still missing core functionalities, hopefully nobody tried to remove ext4. Moreover I won't test wayland, wayland simple is not ready for me. I don't use wayland and I want maintain X11 About benefit to Fedora https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Anaconda_As_Native_Wayland_Application#Benefit_to_Fedora - RDP is more secure that VNC ? this is not an argument, and typically is not an honest argument. VNC works over ssh, is more light, is more quick and is better in all aspect that I can think of. So RDP is not a benefit is an escape to VNC problem . - This change will enable removal of X11 dependencies from the Anaconda which may result in reduction of installed software ? you don't even know if reduce the installed software , so in my conclusion also is not an argument . So zero benefits to Fedora, on other hand any old computer with a graphic where drives don't support wayland will have problems . So is the same problem of kde-X11 and is not just me, several people already state the same. And I'd like discuss this > That is just not acceptable. Period. What for me is not acceptable disable kwin-x11, just because yes , and give a bunch of work to the others , everywhere forum, discourse , chat , email bugzilla, we have to explain what happened , with X11 , how reinstall X11 , so is just not me . > Not to mention that nobody is breaking any user experience. Your mind > is so > distorted that whenever you see "Wayland" you get immediately > triggered and > you fight whatever is going on in the discussion. The problem is not Wayland , the problem is remove X11, and the x11 experience . If you enable wayland but keep X11 as fallback I hadn't any problem . > > what we get with Wayland that we don't get > > with X11 ? > > This has been explained so many times that the fact that you keep > asking this > over and over and over is just making you look like somebody one > cannot have a > conversation with. > > > if you need remove X11 to add Wayland, don't do it ! . > > Again, the reasoning has been explained in the == Detailed > Description == > section > > > Don't > > break the other Linux user systems . > > Nobody is breaking anything. Stop spreading FUD. No, is not FUD, because we got this experience in Fedora 40, _all_ old nvidia drives simple don't support wayland . > > Is difficult understand that you > > should not remove components without agreement of everyone ? > > > > yes, sure, like absolutely everything in our society needs to be > agreed by > 100% of the people. Of course. > > Do you realize how non nonsensical that sounds Until a few weeks ago, there was always agreement and consensus among everyone, here in Fedora, in 20 years I don't remember any discussion like these one. > > Linux should support all kind of hardware, if Wayland don't, you > > should > > provide at least fall backs , and not just ignore the others . > > That is only *your* view. Please explain me why I cannot install > Fedora in my > AMD K6-2 or my Pentium 200 MMX (because I cannot, it is not supported > anymore). > > Linux should support all kind of hardware, right? > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :thumbs up: > > > > The removal of X11 from KDE , just because KDE SIG decide without > > consent of many members of Fedora which contribute to Fedora KDE , > > should not be acceptable . > > Why on earth would you bring this here? I am not sure you can > understand how > childish you look by doing this sort of thing. no, that is the main problem is the removal of X11 . > > > > Waste my energy discussing things that should be obvious , make me > > think if I still should contribute to this project . > > If you ask me? Please don't. I personally do not want to deal with > contributors with the attitude that you have. me too , please stop your contributions to Fedora and attempts of remove X11 , you make me miss the previous maintainers a lot . > > > > Like Linus says "DON'T BREAK THE USER SPACE" > > Is that supposed to mean anything? Just because the kernel maintainer > says > something it doesn't mean that is a rule written by the Heavens and > The All > Mighty and we must follow it. > > (for the record, the linux kernel *has* broken userspace in the past. > Just > saying). > This is a principle that means that you should avoid break things and should provide fallback (I don't have more time) Best regards, -- Sérgio M. 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