Dne 15. 05. 24 v 12:10 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):
On 15. 05. 24 10:08, Vít Ondruch wrote:Dne 14. 05. 24 v 18:35 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):On 14. 05. 24 16:02, Vít Ondruch wrote:Dne 13. 05. 24 v 20:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):On 13. 05. 24 15:38, Vít Ondruch wrote:And TBH, for me as a Fedora used with no special interest in Python, the current Python versioning sucks hard. How am I supposed to tell what is the current version just looking at e.g. the repository? Is it `python3.12` or is it already `python3.13`? Despite I have spent with Fedora more then a decade, answering such simple question is not trivial for me.I guess that for the user, the easiest way is to look at the RPMs. Users barely look into our repositories.~~~ $ rpm -q python package python is not installed ~~~ Why?Because it is called python3. $ rpm -q python3 python3-3.12.3-2.fc39.x86_64I thought this discussion is about python3.12 vs python3.13, not about python vs python3. I supposed the reason it is called python3 and not python is well know at this point (but if it is not, let me know and I'll try to explain).We are in 2024, so I suppose we could rename everything python3 to python now, I just worry that it would be a lot of effort for not much benefit.Even if `# dnf install python` does something, it still won't install `python` package.Well, it installs the python-unverisoned-command package. Which requires python3. So it install python. Why does it matter? What are you trying to demonstrate here? (Don't take me wrong, I always appreciate good criticism, I juts don't understand what are you suggesting we should do.)Do you suggest to rename python-unversioned-command to python? Do you suggest to rename python3 to python?Do you suggest to rename the python3.12 component to python? (As names of the components started this discussion.)Or is it something else?Every time I bring up such discussion, I am told "the reason it is called python3 and not python is well know" and yes, it is know to some, including me. But advocating for less experienced users. I advocating for users which are not experts on Python ecosystem. I am advocating for conventions.I am trying to demonstrate that things should be obvious. There is "Python" language. Not "Python 3" language. There is e.g. https://www.python.org/ not https://www.python3.org/ etc.Therefore, I'd rather hear "you are right, that does not make too much sense (these days). It is confusing and it is about the time to make the things right (finally)". In your words "We are in 2024, so I suppose we could rename everything python3 to python now" is what I would appreciate.So you say "python3" should be renamed to "python".But this entire discussion started about component names (e.g. "python3.12") and your inability to tell which Python version is the default just by looking at the sources.I am not disagreeing with you. I just don't see how we suddenly discuss a completely different thing.
The whole discussion started with LLVM and Python was used as an example. I am saying that Python is bad example and nobody should follow it.
The problem I see is that there is no `python` package which would be coming from `python` SRPM and `python` repository. On top of that, there is by default no `python` command while Python is installed on the system. That is not intuitive.
BTW the `Why?` was rhetoric question, wondering why it so unintuitive. After all, I know the status, history, commands etc. I also acknowledge the amount of invested work to get to the point where we are.
Vít
Anyway, let me tell you:You are right, calling the package(s) "python3" does not make too much sense any more. It might be confusing and it might be about the time to make things right by renaming ~4200 packages back to "python". Feel free to propose a detailed plan of execution.Note that I won't do it, because I don't think the benefits outweighs the necessary work. However, if there is a volunteer to drive this, I am happy to review the proposal and share my feedback.
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