On 1/30/24 08:55 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 08:38:51AM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
3) Fedora has a long-standing and well-communicated stance that we are
a Wayland distribution first and foremost and that X11 support is
intended as a migration-support tool rather than a first-class
citizen.
Does it? This is very much news to me, so I don't think you can call
it "well-communicated". We also have an XFCE desktop spin and
probably others that require X11.
https://fedoraproject.org/uk/spins/xfce/
In addition Wayland doesn't actually replace all the basic
functionality of X11 even after all these years, which is why I need
to use it.
I'm in the same boat. Back in September when this topic came up, folks were invited to write bugs so the missing functionality could presumably be worked on.
I wrote two bugs:
Bug 2239016 - Plasma(Wayland) does not honor window positioning when setting window geometry
Bug 2239029 - Plasma(Wayland) does not save windows between sessions
For 2239016 the response was "That's just how wayland works" and for 2239029 someone added a reference to an upstream KDE bug (from 2021).
I realize that this is a volunteer-driven project, and that I cannot expect someone to address the above wayland limitations, especially since the wayland design philosophy appears to exclude such features.
But that doesn't change the fact that I need the missing functionality, and based on how this discussion is going, I personally doubt wayland will ever meet my needs.
I'm delighted that there are like-minded folks who want to maintain X11. Please allow them to do so.
Steve
4) There was a comment on the FESCo ticket to the effect of '"you must
move to Wayland because no one maintains X11!". Here are some people
who are maintaining X11 packages, so let them do their thing.' This is
misleading, as the move to Wayland is specifically because the
upstream of X11 *itself* is largely unmaintained. These packages are
not maintaining X11, they are adding new dependencies on it.
They're maintaining parts of the X11 stack.
My proposal for consideration is this:
"FESCo will allow these packages in the main Fedora repositories,
however they may not be included by default on any release-blocking
deliverable (ISO, image, etc.)"
It seems quite strong. I'm unclear why having X11 packages and spins
for those that want to use them is a problem. It seems like the
missing functionality of Wayland is the bigger issue that needs to be
addressed.
Rich.
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