On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:25 AM Kevin Kofler via devel <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Neal Gompa wrote: > > We're not getting rid of Firefox. > > At least that is an answer, unlike the complete radio silence on: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1920298 > > Still does not explain why Firefox has to be the default though. It was decided years ago that all desktops would have some Fedora similarities, backgrounds, browser etc. > But the thing is, this inevitably leads to: > * unnecessarily including a redundant web engine on the Spin (because, as I > explained, QtWebEngine cannot go away), a huge package increasing the > download size for all users of the Spin, whether they want Firefox or not, But there's also 2 other web engines other than firefox and QtWebEngine (qt5-qtwebkit and webkit2gtk3) as well as a DB server and the gcc toolchain which I would bet the average user either don't use or don't need to have installed from the outset. I bet there's a lot of low hanging fruit that could slim down KDE rather than just moaning about Firefox which I suspect a lot more people use by default that a lot of the other components. > * a non-native browser experience (with controls/widgets based on the XUL > implementation and the GTK look&feel) instead of a native Qt/KDE one, and > * a hindrance in getting critical QtWebEngine showstoppers fixed in time for > the release, because they are not considered Blockers if they do not affect > the default browser: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2001261#c7 > > > It's the premier open source browser, > > That is arguable, considering that Chromium is also Open Source (*) and that > there are many users of Chromium derivatives (though not necessarily Open > Source (*) ones). > > But either way, it is not a KDE browser. The KDE Spin should be about > shipping KDE applications wherever possible. > > > well-supported > > So is QtWebEngine. Chromium gets a lot of development, and Qt backports > security fixes and important bug fixes to the stable QtWebEngine branches. > Even the LTS releases of QtWebEngine are publicly available under the LGPL > from git.qt.io. > > > and well-liked by the community, > > So "well-liked" that it has a fraction of the market share of Chrome and > other Chromium-based browsers nowadays. > > I think there need to be more objective criteria for picking a default > browser than allegedly being "well-liked by the community". > > > and most things on the Internet will at least accept Firefox as a browser. > > "Most things on the Internet" will also accept any Chromium-based browser, > such as Falkon. The latest QtWebEngine is in fact more standards-compliant > than Firefox, see the evidence under: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1920298 > > Falkon even works for some sites that only officially support Chrome and do > not work with Firefox. (E.g., the Microsoft Teams web interface. Last I > checked, when I tried it with Firefox, it offered me only to download the > desktop client. With Falkon, I can connect in the browser just fine.) > > Now, admittedly, one issue is that Falkon is currently stuck on QtWebEngine > 5, hence on 5.15 LTS, which gets security backports, but not feature > backports, so a handful websites are now causing problems with it. (It is > unfortunate that the web has evolved to such a moving target that web > developers are unwilling to support even supported LTS versions of browsers. > They are also complaining about having to support Safari iOS branches, > Firefox ESR, etc.) For Falkon, that issue should be solved as soon as a Qt 6 > port of Falkon is released. > > > It also works on all Fedora architectures, unlike anything Chromium-based. > > QtWebEngine works on all architectures for which a Fedora KDE deliverable is > actually shipped: > * The KDE Spin is shipped only for x86_64 on the main mirrors. > * On alt.fedoraproject.org, the KDE Spin is shipped only for aarch64. > * Kinoite is shipped only for x86_64 and aarch64. > > So the KDE Spin needs to support only x86_64 and aarch64, both of which are > fully supported by QtWebEngine (and we also build -freeworld for both of > them at that other repository nowadays, I fixed that a couple years ago). > > Kevin Kofler > > (*) I personally prefer the term "Free Software", but since you talked about > the "premier open source browser", I am replying with your terms. > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
