On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 08:36:50AM -0400, Dimi Paun wrote: > On Thu, 2005-07-14 at 08:11 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > Debating the worth of any particular study, > > here.. is pointless.. > > Very smart. It seems that _anything_ is pointless to discuss here. Indeed. It's still all "what Red Hat likes", and screw the rest. At least that's my (oh, not really only mine) impression. Just look at what random stuff is thrown into core by Red Hat folks, whereas outsiders with really useful additions are sent off to Extras. > As I understand it, the entire point of having a _community_ distro like > Fedora is to channel all this customer feedback into a better product. There is no community distro. As Rahul wrote it very explicitly: "whatever is shipped in Core is the way Red Hat wants it to be." And http://www.fedora.redhat.com/about/ says: "Red Hat will retain editorial control over The Fedora Project" A community distro is something different. I'm not saying that this is necessarily better, see Debian. My impression of Fedora is, that it's basically the replacement for the former Red Hat Beta Team... getting testing of new and cool stuff to put into RHEL when it's mature enough. > Please stop with the 'pointless' comments already, they are not helpful. Yeah, this "if you don't agree with us, shut up and go away" communication especially by Rahul and Jeff Spaleta really doesn't encourage putting ANY amount of work (and discussion developements of Fedora IS work) into Fedora anymore. The "we follow upstream!" mantra is also only followed when it's fitting. If the Fedora heads like a change, it gets done (see all the custom patches that regularily pop up in packages), and if outsiders request changes that Fedora heads don't like, we'll hear a "shut up and go upstream, we follow upstream, basta". I just happen to hope that things don't get worse anymore and to look even harder for alternatives. When having done so when I had to make a decision wether to go from FC1 to FC4 or to something else (because of too short security fix support cycle), I didn't see any alternatives that suck less. :-| The terminal launch option now disappearing completely out of immediate reach is a major blow, once again. I really wonder where this is heading. The last really usable desktop for me was GNOME/Enlightenment in RH 6.2 (and 7.x, but I had that only at work place and dunno how much effort the IT folks there had put into making it work). Later on, things got dumbed down more and more. Now we are at metacity (I call it mediocracy) and people still keep on removing features etc. I wonder when will install twm or fvwm again as "powerful, feature-rich" replacement for the hello_world that metacity is. Sigh. But that's just me I guess (probably sounding arrogant again to people not able to handle criticism). I wait for the "shut up and go away if you don't like what you do" comments from the usual suspects. There are already enough distros out there trying to replicate the uglyness of a colorful useless desktop like MS Windows. We don't need another one. The RHEL corporate desktop users are prolly the target of what's going on here, but I can only speculate. Don't get me wrong. I cannot complain - it all comes for free, I greatly respect that and am grateful for the chance to run an OS which mostly fits my needs for zarro bucks and the source comes with it too so I can fiddle with it if I REALLY need to. It just sucks to always here the fairy tale of the "community" distro Fedora is supposed to be, and all I can see is quite the contrary (except of course if it comes to offload the boring stuff like maintaining older releases [Fedora Legacy], betatesting new random stuff put into Core etc.). Regards, Daniel (now prolly being added to a lot of troll filters) -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@xxxxxxxxxx -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0 -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
