On 7/15/05, Daniel Roesen <dr@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > The "we follow upstream!" mantra is also only followed when it's > fitting. Indeed, there are several people who maintain and help develop Core components. Those people all make judgement calls as to when its appropriate to break from upstream. Its not worthwhile to point out that the policy of following upstream is not strictly enforced across the whole distribution. There is no strict policy...there is intent. >From component to component i think its pretty clear which developers are most intent on following upstream and which are more willing to bend a little. In most cases with regard to gnome, like the issues brought up in this thread, its pretty clear the the developers and package maintainers are intent on following gnome upstream as much as possible. The result of that intent.. is that concerns about viability and usefulness of the gnome defaults need to be discussed as part of ongoing gnome development if you want to maximize the potential impact of your opinions. If your goal is to minimize the impact of your opinions and arguments... continue to discuss them downstream. I can't fathom why someone would choose to minimize rather than maximize their impact with regard to an issue they care enough about to spend time commenting on in a mailinglist. > When having done so when I had to make > a decision wether to go from FC1 to FC4 or to something else (because of > too short security fix support cycle), I didn't see any alternatives > that suck less. :-| There's a tagline for marketting. "Fedora: garunteed to suck less than other alternatives" If you'd like to discuss more ideas for fedora marketting taglines, there is a mailinglist dedicated for fedora marketting. > > The terminal launch option now disappearing completely out of immediate > reach is a major blow, once again. I really wonder where this is > heading. No need to wonder... If you get invovled or at least follow gnome development discussions upstream.. I'm sure you can get a clearer picture of project direction and momentum. > I wonder > when will install twm or fvwm again as "powerful, feature-rich" > replacement for the hello_world that metacity is. Sigh. twm is still provided in Core and I still use fvwm in some situations. I accept the fact that metacity is not necessarily the best fit for all situations. I also accept the fact that default choices have to be made with a target group of users in mind. I also accept that its realistically when defaults have to be chosen the defaults will not be perfect for all users. If you can't accept these statements as fact, you're head is in the wrong space and you are going to be continually frustrated by the gnome design process. I accept the choice of upstream gnome to have metacity as the default window manager even though it does not suit me personally in all situations. I do not feel its worth arguing over defaults simply because my personal needs are not met with the default settings, as long as its "easy enough" to re-configure. I don't personally need the defaults to fit me perfectly, but I need to be able to re-configure it, and I desire for that re-configuration to meet a minimum standard of ease. In the case of the terminal menu item, its already been pointed out that people are working on packaging it up as an addon for Fedora Extras. And I'm sure fvwm can find a home in Extras if a willing contributor wants to package it. In terms of re-configuration of gnome on a fedora system to move from defaults to "power-user" configs, I'm pretty sure there is a path forward through the sabayon project, which is in extras for fc4. > I wait for the "shut up and go away if > you don't like what you do" comments from the usual suspects. Your complaints seem to me more about gnome defaults than anything fedora specific. Since gnome defaults impact more than just fedora, you should take your concerns to the gnome project directly in order to maximize the impact you will have across a number of distributions that provide a gnome desktop experience, potentially making alternatives to fedora "suck less" for you as well. -jef -jef"i think someone is mistaking assuming i work for sombrero rojo"spaleta -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
