Vít Ondruch <vondruch@xxxxxxxxxx> writes: > Dne 28. 01. 21 v 15:51 Robbie Harwood napsal(a): >> Vít Ondruch <vondruch@xxxxxxxxxx> writes: >> >>> Thx everybody for their responses and sorry for such controversial >>> topic. I am not going to propose this upstream after all. However I >>> have few takeaways: >>> >>> 1) I see responses of Fedora long timers and I understand that you >>> have polished workflows. But I really think that for newcomers, mock >>> should be the preferred way. I'd love to see documentation adjusted >>> to prefer mock everywhere. >>> >>> 2) I would really love you to stop using VMs for your build/testing. >>> With exception of Kernel and Kernel related issues, the argument of >>> "mock being slow" can't stand. Every VM will be more resources >>> hungry then mock, slowing every your task. >>> >>> 3) The argument of mock being slow can't stand, because in one of my >>> examples I posted elsewhere in this thread, I picked up the simplest >>> package I could and the build took 7 seconds. This is certainly not >>> slow, in this time you can't even switch to your email client to >>> check your emails. >> >> So far on this thread, you've asked feedback on a proposal, and then >> when provided with feedback you didn't like, repeatedly argued with >> our comments and told us we're wrong. This is not a good way to >> engage with feedback. > > > I have provided the numbers here: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/4RSZSVMHLIGEYIHLC6NOH3BEWWFQ7JQY/ > > where I tried to point out that I don't perceive build of trivial > package done in 7s to be slow. For nontrivial package the mock overhead > is negligible. Nobody replied (in constructive way). On various places, > I have suggested to use "--no-clean" option for repeated builds. But in > the whole thread, there was no confirmation that anyone would use it. > > Yet I am repetitively told that mock is slow, you repeat it down bellow > once again without any evidence. Your only argument to this discussion > is that mock is slow, because you believe so and other people have said > so. I would really appreciate if I was given some specific > counterargument supported by numbers. I believe you are missing my point. Your original email reads: I wonder, what would be the sentiment if I proposed to deprecated the `fedpkg local` command. I don't think it should be used. Mock should be the preferred way. Would there be anybody really missing this functionality? This is a *request for input*. You explicitly mention wanting to know "sentiment" [1]. I didn't reply because I wanted to complain or argue; I replied to express what my feelings are. Don't ever tell someone that their feelings are wrong. You want to have a technical argument, fine. But an email initiating that looks very different. Here's an example: `fedpkg local` is a burden to maintain because [insert reasons]. I would like to have everyone using mock instead. What improvements do we need to make in order for your workflow to move off `fedpkg local`? This requests concrete data - actionable points, even. It states intentions clearly, and a request for details and data isn't out of scope. Thanks, --Robbie 1: Here's Merriam-Webster on that: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentiment - note that *every single definition* is subjective and/or involves emotion.
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