On 19/11/2020 19:17, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 1:09 PM Daniel Pocock <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 19/11/2020 18:55, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 06:50:21PM +0100, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote: >>>> On 19.11.2020 18:34, Radka Gustavsson wrote: >>>>> Rich, IRC is not being dropped, it is being bridged to modern, >>>>> "IRC-native" (for lack of better word in my vocabulary) platform. >>>>> Contributors who prefer to stay on IRC are welcome to do so and >>>>> won't really notice any difference. >>>> >>>> No, please. IRC bridges need to be closed to force users to switch >>>> to Matrix. >>> >>> "force"? You may have said the quiet bit aloud ... >> >> yes, it got my attention too >> >> I'm not going to give a firm recommendation for or against any platform >> but I'd like to make two suggestions: >> >> a) why not slow the process down and allow more ideas to come forward? >> There is no urgent need to change things in a month or whatever. >> >> b) it is really important to look at the organizational factors and not >> just the technical factors. Today, too many organizations allow their >> culture to be shaped by whatever tool is available. I'll refrain from >> giving examples of the disasters that follow. For any free software >> organization and any other type of organization too, it needs to be >> organization first, tool second. >> >> Maybe I will recommend a platform... >> > > The move to having our own Matrix server is being driven by Fedora > subcommunities already wanting to move primacy from IRC to Matrix. > Many of our adjunct upstreams have done so (Mozilla, KDE, etc.) or are > in the process of doing so (GNOME, openSUSE, etc.). > > The intent isn't to drop IRC as a gateway to these communities, and > indeed the Freenode IRC channels would remain bridged to the Fedora > Matrix server. > > To be blunt, we're struggling to get new folks to come talk to us on > IRC. Our largest user community is on Discord today, which eclipses > *everything* else by a wide margin. Next up is Telegram, which we have > been using somewhat for years through influence by the Russian Fedora > community who brought it to us in the first place. Neither of these > platforms are FOSS, and we want to provide a rich real-time > communications platform that is FOSS and open in many of the same ways > that IRC is. Matrix is open, federated, and gaining share in the > marketplace, making it a solid replacement for IRC. And unlike > alternatives, maintaining links to historical IRC channels with Matrix > rooms is easy and straightforward. > > We want to be approachable, and we want to be appealing. Right now, > our usage of IRC hurts us. The Matrix makeover can help smooth out > those issues without leaving behind the folks who prefer the IRC > interface. This aspect of using Matrix definitely lowers the risk Nonetheless, a lot of people still misrepresent Matrix as a fully federated or peer-to-peer solution when it isn't quite there yet. The Matrix developers clearly state[1] that the Identity Server concept is a work in progress. In its current form, that part of the platform is still somewhat centralized but better than an entirely closed platform. Overall, I still think there are higher level issues that go along with this. For example, some of the work I've done around iCalendar and task lists is intended to encourage people to think about how they manage their time on these platforms and ensure the right people are in the right call/chat session at the same time to make decisions together. I know that sounds quite basic but it doesn't always happen. It is not always about which tool people are using, sometimes organizations are just not managing calendars in an efficient manner. Regards, Daniel 1. https://matrix.org/faq/#can-i-run-my-own-identity-server%3F _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
