On Friday, November 20, 2020 11:52:46 AM MST Radka Gustavsson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:03 PM John M. Harris Jr <johnmh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > > On Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:17:15 AM MST Neal Gompa wrote: > > > The move to having our own Matrix server is being driven by Fedora > > > subcommunities already wanting to move primacy from IRC to Matrix. > > > Many of our adjunct upstreams have done so (Mozilla, KDE, etc.) or are > > > in the process of doing so (GNOME, openSUSE, etc.). > > > > > > The intent isn't to drop IRC as a gateway to these communities, and > > > indeed the Freenode IRC channels would remain bridged to the Fedora > > > Matrix server. > > > > > > To be blunt, we're struggling to get new folks to come talk to us on > > > IRC. > > > > Has this been documented anywhere? If so, we can likely review these > > issues, > > and see what would need to be done to solve this problem, if there is one. > > > > > Our largest user community is on Discord today, which eclipses > > > *everything* else by a wide margin. > > > > It's worth questioning whether those folks are actually Fedora uses, or > > people > > who are just a bit interested in Fedora. Given that the use of proprietary > > software, where a superior Free alternative exists, is against the Four > > Foundations, it's questionable that they'd be Discord users. > > I manage the place we're talking about so I can tell you all about it. Many > open source lovers use Discord. Quite a few became Fedora contributors > through our Discord community as well. Perhaps you shouldn't judge without > ever participating. People aren't automatically bad or whatever just > because they don't mind using proprietary software when its benefits far > outweigh the downsides and when it enables them to work at their peak > efficiency. I never said that anyone was "bad or whatever" for using proprietary software. I'm not going to get much further into this, because I don't want this to become another pile-on, but Discord is hardly the most efficient chat option. I've seen videos of its use, and we have Free Software that meets and exceeds the needs that Discord also offers a solution to. > Discord is in fact an amazing chat platform for the end user that doesn't > have a peer out there. (I could talk for hours about its flaws, but the end > user won't notice or realise most of them.) You're extremely wrong in > saying that there is a "superior" libre alternative. There isn't, nowhere > near. If there was, it would have been popular and not Discord. Those > masses chose it for its features and ease of use. It allows people to do > whatever they want and doesn't disable anyone, regardless how "out there" > their requirements may be. We're just going to have to disagree on that one. I look forward to hearing about the new hotness in a few more years. > Our Discord community is not "against the Four Foundations" like you say. I didn't say that it was. This has been clarified by the Council at this point, it's not an official communication platform, it's just treated as a social media account. > It definitely hits 3/4 - Features Friends and First, and by proxy, by > enabling people to reach Fedora contributors easier, it also enables the > FREE in the end, by further contribution from the members. I could easily > turn your logic against IRC - it's definitely not First to introduce new > Features and because of it, it doesn't bring Friends together anymore. All > it's got really going for it is the FREE. Discord is not Free Software. In this context, Free refers not to price, but to freedom. Libre, not gratis. -- John M. Harris, Jr.
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