On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Michael Catanzaro <mcatanzaro@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 8:16 pm, Paul Frields <stickster@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> For a solution to be viable it needs to meet requirements.
Of course, but the problem is that the requirements identified by CPE
are wildly inconsistent with the actual requirements of the Fedora
community. The Pagure we have right now seems to be working fine for
Fedora. All we really need is occasional light maintenance and ensuring
the infrastructure keeps running. I don't think we'd be having this
conversation now at all if "dist-git must be open source" was a listed
requirement, as it should have been from the beginning.
We don't need merge trains or MR approvals or mobile apps (seriously?)
or private comments or gists or analytics or basically any of the other
requirements that Neal has lampooned. I understand CentOS and RHEL
really want merge trains, so maybe that one is a good faith
requirement, but I honestly don't think most of the rest of them are.
The list seems to have been concocted by looking at GitLab features
exclusive to Enterprise and Ultimate editions and then listing as many
as possible, not by actually listing features that are really actually
needed to make things work. I know the requirements came from
stakeholders and not from CPE, but the requirements are so far removed
from Fedora's actual needs that it has jeopardized the legitimacy of
the rest of the process. Fedora simply doesn't need any of it. To the
I think one of the problems is that every person here says they know what Fedora needs and quite frankly after you add up all the things it comes into the grab bag we got for a Git replacement. You have your opinions, and so do 800 other developers. Right now the people who want a complete FLOSS solution are yelling but for the last 5+ years the people who have been yelling that GitLab/GitHub was a better solution have been yelling. Those complaints have been just as strong and vociferous with lots of insinuations about wasting time, money, and resources when Git* was there. I have seen multiple infra people burn out trying to keep up with all the features that various Fedora groups said was ESSENTIAL and complained enough that they would go elsewhere if it didn't happen.
In the end, we have to realize that the Fedora community is not a solid mass and there is rarely a clear majority. The infrastructure we have is a highly complicated mess of interlocking tools to try and deal with the fact there is no majority of what people want, and that they want new stuff every 3-5 months added. That continually adding complexity has made getting people involved in infrastructure harder and harder because for every group which said 'oh drop this, it isn't needed' there were multiple groups saying 'we use this heavily and would stop existing if you took it away'. And whenever a primary team decides they can't handle it anymore.. oh that is what Red Hat pays Infrastructure to do.. they can add it.
We tried to have a 'heroes' program to get people added in like we used to but so much stuff is so intertwined and needing only limited access that it is pretty impossible to allow anyone an ability to look at it. [I regularly find I can't drop something to the community because it contains personal information and the GDPR and other regs say it is now something which must have limited access and must be treated properly. I fundamentally agree that is the right thing for people's private information so I end up not being able to allow anyone else to work on it.] Trying to say 'ok well start over and take over responsibility for any data collected' has been a flop because 'too much work and too much responsibility' as one person told me.
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
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