On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 at 23:22, Paul Frields <stickster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 7:03 AM Neal Gompa <ngompa13@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:52 AM Nicolas Mailhot via devel > > <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > Le mercredi 01 avril 2020 à 11:30 +0100, Leigh Griffin a écrit : > > > > > > > > To distill it down: > > > > > > > > - Gitlab has more features that are needed right now for our > > > > stakeholder group > > > > - Gitlab has an entire company dedicated to roadmap features, we do > > > > not. > > > > > > Unfortunately, Gitlab’s roadmap is also conflicting with Fedora > > > objectives. The bread and butter of Gitlab is intermediating between > > > devs and end users, culling free software intermediaries like > > > distributions, and positionning itself in their stead. That is unlikely > > > to result in any commitment to making distribution workflows work. > > > > > > That would not be a problem if the disintermediation worked, but like > > > many actors Gitlab sees the $$$ and power in being the > > > desintermediator, and does not care if the result is deffective, as > > > long as $$$ and power flows its way. > > > > > > > It's also important to note that at the core of GitLab's incentive > > model is that they want to remove incentives to use FOSS solutions in > > favor of their unified proprietary solution. They are constantly > > integrating features and capabilities into the proprietary parts to > > make it "juicier" for enterprises who don't really have a compunction > > about whether they are using Free Software solutions or not, or even > > may not be willing to support them if it was Free Software because of > > outmoded thinking. > > > > The consequence of this is that it starves interest and development in > > FOSS solutions, and contributes to making the FOSS ecosystem weaker > > over time. > > That statement rings hollow for me, when Github is arguably the single > biggest vendor of open source in the world, no part of itself is open > source, and thanks to its pervasiveness, open source has won the war > of how development should work. This is imho a contradictory statement. Github, being closed source and pervasive, is a proof that open-source has won? No, the trend obviously is to give up some open-source community part to get people hooked-in and then earn money on the proprietary version of the product which has more features. I am not saying it is wrong but it is clearly something else than "open source has won the war of how development should work". But what we are solving here is not about some closed-source/open-source battle, it's about Fedora keeping its autonomy and values. Of course, Fedora going for a proprietary solution also _doesn't_ show that "open source has won the war of how development should work". > > > It wouldn't surprise me if not many people at Red Hat sat down and > > thought seriously about that particular consequence, because it's not > > exactly an obvious one. > > I don't know how many people do, since it's a growing company. I > assure you some of us do. :-) > > > > At heart, Fedora is a tooling project. It’s a collective of people that > > > chose to use a specific integration toolchain. Anything involved in > > > creating Fedora packages cuts deep into the project core. (unlike, say, > > > calendaring). > > > > > > It’s easy to forget this when making tooling decisions, > > > because it is so pervasive, most do not see it anymore. Tooling is > > > anything but accessory to the project. > > > > > > > Exactly. This is a huge part of why people are so upset over this, > > because if you take away our tools, you take away the reason to be > > passionate about Fedora. And thus, you remove why people use and > > contribute to Fedora in the first place. > > My reason for being passionate about Fedora is mainly about helping > people use the software and content we provide in ways that serve > their needs and solve their problems. To do that, I use Inkscape[1], > Wordpress[2], and Ansible[3] a lot. > > [1] https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape > [2] https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-develop > [3] https://github.com/ansible/ansible That's nice, some people, on the other hand, are passionate about the way Fedora is able to deliver that software - it delivers it while at the same time helping the open-source software by using it. > > > -- > Paul > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
