Le mardi 07 janvier 2020 à 14:06 +0100, Fabio Valentini a écrit : > > Conclusion: Some things could and should be improved Yes, there are lots of shades of gray. All recent package managers allow downloading stuff for use (or they'd have no users). Some manage to build things. Some manage deps. A small set manages tests (usually, very poorly). And the associated deps. Very few manage installs. Even less manage upgrades. The more they manage the easier they are to automate and convert into rpm. The less they manage the harder they are to do things with, with of without rpm. Improving things requires continuing to improve and fixing rpm (which, sadly, is ridiculously under-invested in), and then adding the corresponding features to language package managers when their community is willing to make use of it. Because, the only way to make mapping to rpm easier is to fix the feature holes in language package managers (that does not remove the need for something like rpm because none of those handle mixed language projects and reality is full of those). However, adding things when upstream has no intention to move from the stone age is a perfect waste of time, as shown by the lack of adoption of the Fedora maven fork. So that requires willingness from upstream. And that’s the real answer to "upstream does not want to deal with rpm". Making things work better our side. Feeding value back upstream. There is no value in dumping rpm or investing in a different packaging tech because rpm is used as an alias for lots of things upstreams disagree with, most of which are not actually rpm the software, and most of which would not go away with a packaging tech switch. It would be interesting to analyse all those things, not to plan an rpm replacement, but to actually fix the things upstreams are not happy about (and, a lot of time, those won't involve rpm, and when they do involve rpm fixing rpm will be easier than rewriting it from scratch). But, some of those are inherently unfixable. All of the people that do "open source" because that’s the condition to earn their paycheck, but do not understand or are not interested in free software or Linux, won’t work with use no matter how we costume ourselves. There are lots of those nowadays. The Microsoft stranglehold has been broken and replaced by a Google/Apple/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft oligopoly. People feel "free" to switch corporate masters, they to not feel the urge to make commons work. -- Nicolas Mailhot _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
