On 23 September 2019 22:42:35 CEST, Ty Young <youngty1997@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >On 9/23/19 3:16 PM, Markus Larsson wrote: >> >> >> On 23 September 2019 21:58:02 CEST, Ty Young <youngty1997@xxxxxxxxx> >> wrote: >> > >> >On 9/23/19 1:53 PM, Markus Larsson wrote: >> >> You already have a solution. Use the solution you have. >> > >> > >> >Not a solution, it's a bandaid to a much larger problem. >> >> You said it works fine in Arch. So use Arch. > > >What if another user uses it on Fedora and then blames me or some other > >developer for it not working? That's BS. > > >If you think I'm upset now, I'll go full tilt if that ever happens. I >refuse to be blamed for some dumb decision Fedora made. I want to >support Fedora, but Fedora doesn't want to support me. I'm more than >doing my part to try to get this fixed. Why do you think anger will solve problems? Just point them towards Fedora and say that you can't do anything about it. > > >> You say that it can be configured easily in Fedora so do that and use > >> Fedora. > > >I never said that. I said the complete opposite of that. Learn to read, > >please. I'm sorry if I was mistaken. > > >> Those are solutions to your problem. > > >No. > > >> >> > >> > >> >> Fedora will not change to cater to this particular need. >> >> Your opinions does not dictate what Fedora should/shouldn't do. >> > >> > >> >Yet Fedora expects other distros/DEs, *including their own spins* to >> >cater to their decisions when those decisions aren't wanted or >> >technically possible to begin with. That's hypocritical. >> >> As a Fedora user I don't expect to be able to demand what defaults >> Void or Arch or Gentoo should have. > > >Fedora doesn't? Then why did Fedora upstream the non root X. Org >feature >then instead of custom patching it every release? Clearly no one cares >or wants it, as evident by the fact that X. Org is running as root(and >by extension, overclocking works) yet Fedora as the maintainers of X. >Org decided to make it the default? How is that not pushing your own >agenda on other distros? If they went out of their way to disable it >then they clearly don't want it. You and everyone else are free to fork if you don't agree with upstream. > > >And Fedora's own spins are impacted by this. It's not even consistent, >reliable behavior in Fedora. You can't even depend on it one way or the > >other. Applications that depend on X. Org. being root will literally >work just fine on a spin of Fedora but not the Gnome version. That's >unnecessary fragmentation in the same ecosystem. This has already been explained yet you act as if it hasn't. If only I could find something to say about reading proficiency to come of as friendly. > > > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Your rants and all caps won't make anything change. Please try to >> >deal >> >> with it and move on from this rather dead thread. >> > >> > >> >My apologies for interrupting your daily mailing list programming of >> >package orphaning/retirement. I know everyone's waiting on their >seats >> >in anticipation of what packages are going orphaned/retired next, >but >> >the current discussion has evolved into something that very much >> >impacts >> >that very issue. >> >> How about not interrupting that with something that was very clearly >> explained to you about 50 mails ago? >> >> > >> > >> >Let me break it down for you: >> > >> > >> >1. More fragmentation means more work to maintain and test >everything. >> > >> > >> >2. More work to maintain and test everything requires more people. >> > >> > >> >3. More people means more roles that have to be filled which require >> >experience. >> > >> > >> >4. Different people have different ideas on approaching problems, >and >> >since they have experience, they use that experience to fragment the >> >desktop even more instead of compromising or working together. This >is >> >*Fedora* >> > >> > >> >5. More fragmentation angers developers who want to support the >> >platform >> >since they can't ensure that their software works remotely >> >consistently. >> >This is *me*. >> > >> > >> >6. Angry developers means less software for Linux. >> > >> > >> >7. Less software for Linux means less users. >> > >> > >> >8. Less users means a smaller pool of potential people to fill empty >> >roles. >> > >> > >> >9. Empty roles means things go stale, bugs go unfixed, and no one >has >> >experience. >> > >> > >> >Make any sense? I know it doesn't perfectly loop back at the end but >> >1-4 >> >does. >> >> No your unrelated 9 step venting does not make any sense unless of >> course your aim was to be rude in a new and slightly more amusing >way. > > >It wasn't rude, it was a fact. You can't gain experience doing >something >if you aren't doing it to begin with. I understood what you wrote. It just didn't in any way fit with the conversation. > > >> One thing peaked my interest though, what software is it that you >> wanted to "support the platform" with? > > >To put in your own words, how about not interrupting with something >that >was very clearly explained to you about 50 mails ago? > > >Speaking of 50 emails, that's an impressive number for a dead thread... I'm going to step away from this now. Mainly because it is like a broken record. It just keeps skipping back. > > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Br >> >> M >> >> >> >> On 23 September 2019 20:38:13 CEST, Ty Young ><youngty1997@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/23/19 10:00 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:50 am, Michael Catanzaro >> >>> <mcatanzaro@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>> You're wasting your time. We're not going to run the X server >> >as >> >>>> root just so you can overclock your GPU. Not a chance. >> >>> >> >> >> >> It isn't just to overclock my GPU, you're *BREAKING PEOPLE'S >> >> SOFTWARE, EVEN IF THEY ARE FLATPAK*. The whole point of Flatpak >> >> for an end user is cross-distro compatibility! >> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyway, while we won't do that Fedora... since you're clearly >> >>> interested in customizing your system, you can do so for >> >>> yourself. What you want to do is build gdm using the configure >> >>> flag --disable-user-display-server. You can host your special >> >gdm >> >>> in a copr if you want to make it easier for other Nvidia >> >>> overclockers to use it. >> >> >> >> >> >> This is entirely unnecessary. You can enable root X. Org via the >> >> config option. A random user's COPR repo isn't a whole lot safer. >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/XorgWithoutRootRights >> >>> for why this was changed (over five years ago!). The changes >> >were >> >>> made upstream, so there is nothing Fedora-specific here. If you >> >>> use GNOME on most other distros, you should see the same >> >behavior. >> >> >> >> >> >> Five years ago and yet no other DE besides Gnome supports it. >> >Five >> >> years and many distros that even use Gnome don't even have it >> >> enabled by default. Five years and Fedora has done nothing to >> >make >> >> other DEs support it despite the fact that Fedora is the only one >> >> that actually wants the change to begin with. >> >> >> >> >> >> Lets *actually read* that link, shall we? >> >> >> >> >> >> >The user experience will be unchanged >> >> >> >> >> >> This is a blatant lie. Breaking people's software absolutely >> >> impacts the user experience. >> >> >> >> >> >> >Desktop product: gdm, Ray Strode is working on this: ? >> >> >> >> >KDE spin: ? >> >> >> >> >XFCE spin: ? >> >> >> >> >LXDE spin: ? >> >> >> >> >> >> Look at that broad DE support. It's *almost* like no one cares or >> >> wants this, even after 5 years! There are still open bug reports >> >> on multiple distros/DEs that haven't been worked on or updated in >> >> years. >> >> >> >> >> >> >Having the xserver not run as root reduces Fedora's attack >> >surface. >> >> >> >> >> >> ...which few other Linux distro cares about and is seemingly just >> >> a boogeyman used to fearmonger since no one can pin point actual >> >> malicious software that takes advantage of it to begin with. >> >> >> >> >> >> If you're so afraid of the X. Org as root boogeyman then oh boy, >> >> allow me to turn it up a notch by telling you just *some* of the >> >> things possible with basic *user* account permissions. You can: >> >> >> >> >> >> -reboot/shutdown >> >> >> >> >> >> -silently lockup the system by spawning too many threads >> >> >> >> >> >> -hard lock the system by passing allowed but unsupported values >> >> >> >> >> >> -fill up memory, resulting in HDD thrashing and potentially >> >> killing your SSD >> >> >> >> >> >> -create other processes(pop up windows) >> >> >> >> >> >> -kill other processes >> >> >> >> >> >> -upload all your files in your home directory to a personal >> >> private server >> >> >> >> >> >> -delete all your files in your home directory >> >> >> >> >> >> -encrypt all your files in your home directory. >> >> >> >> >> >> ...among a whole lot else I'm probably forgetting. >> >> >> >> >> >> Point is, at some point you need to let the security crap go. No >> >> one else cares besides Fedora and Gnome. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> The only distro I know of that uses >> >--disable-user-display-server >> >>> is Endless. >> >>> >> >>> Michael >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >> >devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> >>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> >>> List Guidelines: >> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> >>> List Archives: >> >>> >> >>https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> >https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> >> List Guidelines: >> >https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> >> List Archives: >> >>https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> List Guidelines: >https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> List Archives: >https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
