On 23 September 2019 21:58:02 CEST, Ty Young <youngty1997@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>On 9/23/19 1:53 PM, Markus Larsson wrote:
>> You already have a solution. Use the solution you have.
>
>
>Not a solution, it's a bandaid to a much larger problem.
You said it works fine in Arch. So use Arch.
You say that it can be configured easily in Fedora so do that and use Fedora.
Those are solutions to your problem.
>
>
>> Fedora will not change to cater to this particular need.
>> Your opinions does not dictate what Fedora should/shouldn't do.
>
>
>Yet Fedora expects other distros/DEs, *including their own spins* to
>cater to their decisions when those decisions aren't wanted or
>technically possible to begin with. That's hypocritical.
As a Fedora user I don't expect to be able to demand what defaults Void or Arch or Gentoo should have.
>
>
>>
>> Your rants and all caps won't make anything change. Please try to
>deal
>> with it and move on from this rather dead thread.
>
>
>My apologies for interrupting your daily mailing list programming of
>package orphaning/retirement. I know everyone's waiting on their seats
>in anticipation of what packages are going orphaned/retired next, but
>the current discussion has evolved into something that very much
>impacts
>that very issue.
How about not interrupting that with something that was very clearly explained to you about 50 mails ago?
>
>
>Let me break it down for you:
>
>
>1. More fragmentation means more work to maintain and test everything.
>
>
>2. More work to maintain and test everything requires more people.
>
>
>3. More people means more roles that have to be filled which require
>experience.
>
>
>4. Different people have different ideas on approaching problems, and
>since they have experience, they use that experience to fragment the
>desktop even more instead of compromising or working together. This is
>*Fedora*
>
>
>5. More fragmentation angers developers who want to support the
>platform
>since they can't ensure that their software works remotely
>consistently.
>This is *me*.
>
>
>6. Angry developers means less software for Linux.
>
>
>7. Less software for Linux means less users.
>
>
>8. Less users means a smaller pool of potential people to fill empty
>roles.
>
>
>9. Empty roles means things go stale, bugs go unfixed, and no one has
>experience.
>
>
>Make any sense? I know it doesn't perfectly loop back at the end but
>1-4
>does.
No your unrelated 9 step venting does not make any sense unless of course your aim was to be rude in a new and slightly more amusing way.
One thing peaked my interest though, what software is it that you wanted to "support the platform" with?
>
>
>>
>> Br
>> M
>>
>> On 23 September 2019 20:38:13 CEST, Ty Young <youngty1997@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 9/23/19 10:00 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:50 am, Michael Catanzaro
>>> <mcatanzaro@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> You're wasting your time. We're not going to run the X server
>as
>>>> root just so you can overclock your GPU. Not a chance.
>>>
>>
>> It isn't just to overclock my GPU, you're *BREAKING PEOPLE'S
>> SOFTWARE, EVEN IF THEY ARE FLATPAK*. The whole point of Flatpak
>> for an end user is cross-distro compatibility!
>>
>>
>>> Anyway, while we won't do that Fedora... since you're clearly
>>> interested in customizing your system, you can do so for
>>> yourself. What you want to do is build gdm using the configure
>>> flag --disable-user-display-server. You can host your special
>gdm
>>> in a copr if you want to make it easier for other Nvidia
>>> overclockers to use it.
>>
>>
>> This is entirely unnecessary. You can enable root X. Org via the
>> config option. A random user's COPR repo isn't a whole lot safer.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/XorgWithoutRootRights
>>> for why this was changed (over five years ago!). The changes
>were
>>> made upstream, so there is nothing Fedora-specific here. If you
>>> use GNOME on most other distros, you should see the same
>behavior.
>>
>>
>> Five years ago and yet no other DE besides Gnome supports it.
>Five
>> years and many distros that even use Gnome don't even have it
>> enabled by default. Five years and Fedora has done nothing to
>make
>> other DEs support it despite the fact that Fedora is the only one
>> that actually wants the change to begin with.
>>
>>
>> Lets *actually read* that link, shall we?
>>
>>
>> >The user experience will be unchanged
>>
>>
>> This is a blatant lie. Breaking people's software absolutely
>> impacts the user experience.
>>
>>
>> >Desktop product: gdm, Ray Strode is working on this: ?
>>
>> >KDE spin: ?
>>
>> >XFCE spin: ?
>>
>> >LXDE spin: ?
>>
>>
>> Look at that broad DE support. It's *almost* like no one cares or
>> wants this, even after 5 years! There are still open bug reports
>> on multiple distros/DEs that haven't been worked on or updated in
>> years.
>>
>>
>> >Having the xserver not run as root reduces Fedora's attack
>surface.
>>
>>
>> ...which few other Linux distro cares about and is seemingly just
>> a boogeyman used to fearmonger since no one can pin point actual
>> malicious software that takes advantage of it to begin with.
>>
>>
>> If you're so afraid of the X. Org as root boogeyman then oh boy,
>> allow me to turn it up a notch by telling you just *some* of the
>> things possible with basic *user* account permissions. You can:
>>
>>
>> -reboot/shutdown
>>
>>
>> -silently lockup the system by spawning too many threads
>>
>>
>> -hard lock the system by passing allowed but unsupported values
>>
>>
>> -fill up memory, resulting in HDD thrashing and potentially
>> killing your SSD
>>
>>
>> -create other processes(pop up windows)
>>
>>
>> -kill other processes
>>
>>
>> -upload all your files in your home directory to a personal
>> private server
>>
>>
>> -delete all your files in your home directory
>>
>>
>> -encrypt all your files in your home directory.
>>
>>
>> ...among a whole lot else I'm probably forgetting.
>>
>>
>> Point is, at some point you need to let the security crap go. No
>> one else cares besides Fedora and Gnome.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The only distro I know of that uses
>--disable-user-display-server
>>> is Endless.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
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>>
>>
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--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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