On Thu, 13 Dec 2018 at 06:15, Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Le 2018-12-12 18:49, Kevin Fenzi a écrit : > > On 12/12/18 4:10 AM, Ben Rosser wrote: > > then > > finding out what it would take to solve each and helping create and > > land > > fixes for them, be that a pagure bugfix or a workflow change or > > whatever. > > … but only if there is an effort at the Fedora level to act on this > list. That's means infra time, and that means Fedora leadership time to > make sure infra has this time and actually uses it to fix the issues > packagers reported. > Having played this game also several times.. as soon as people aren't still able to do what they were doing already we get variations of the following: "What do you mean we only have 4/5ths of the builders so you can work out how to make the new system work at scale.. I don't care, move it back" "What do you mean that I have to do these new steps because it will drop the amount of time rawhide or a release is broken. I don't give a crap about rawhide or the releases. I want my package built now because I have other things to do!" "When I said I wanted less breakage I didn't meant my packages, I meant those people using that <arch|development stack|toolset> which are always breaking things for my builds. Those are the extremes which people remember, but all the little ones about "why do builds take so long?" "does infra actually do anything?" "ugh another packaging change, why are they making it so hard." adds up also. Eventually people working things (or the leadership) gets tired of 400 packagers grousing and says "that's enough.. just keep doing what you were doing.. we will try this again later." So we like many middle aged communities, end up in a state where we have found a local minima of grumpiness. People dislike where we are, but every change seems to make things worse enough that people just want what they had more. We think that the reason no one wants to live around us anymore is because 'the other people' cause so much noise, without realizing that is our own constant low-level complaining about everything which people are tired of. This is going to take more than infrastructure to fix. This is going to take more than our managers telling us to fix them. It is going to take everyone to not just list the problems, but go over them, triage them and come up with what level of pain they are willing to live with while it is getting worked on. > Been there, done that, not interested in filling new issues no one wants > to work on or look at. Already doing too much of that lately. > > Regards, > > -- > Nicolas Mailhot > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- Stephen J Smoogen. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
