Kevin Fenzi writes: > Huh. The only person I know of from Fedora at least that was > working on it was abompard. While he's working on other things now, > as far as I know he's still working on mailman3/hyperkitty as time > permits. pingu and abadger also contributed. Don't know their exact affiliations or what they're doing for Fedora's installation, but all three have stopped substantial upstream contribution for a couple years now. abompard has a few commits, he and pingu still answer mail but that's about it. abadger we still hang with at PyCons, but he wasn't involved in the later development, and would have to put a lot of effort in to get up to speed. As you say "it could be anyone who wants to", so we're not going to ask any of them to do more than they want to at any given time. They're not core any more. > > but *somebody* is going to have to commit to better care and > > feeding of the channel, whatever software is supporting it. > > Sure, but it could be anyone who wants to fix those things. No, it can't, can it. Fedora is not keeping up with upstream, which means that "anyone who wants to" isn't upgrading on the Fedora system. And that's because they'd need to get permission or effort out of the operators, and apparently that's scarce. The people who manage the machines have to make this commitment, or it goes nowhere. > By "really done" I didn't mean that the software was bug free and > implemented 100% of it's intended uses. I just meant that they want > to ship a usable product, of course there are still bugs or things > that in hindshight would have been good to fix before release. I accept your definition, but I've never seen "really done" used to mean just "usable" before. ;-) > Sure, and I don't know of anyone who said it was your > responsibility. I didn't say anybody said that; I was pointing out that we are ready to help by accepting and maintaining bugfixes and improvements done by Fedora workers (as before), and to a limited extent to use our own resources to work on bug reports and RFEs. We have a proven record of doing exactly that. Discourse, OTOH, is an unknown quantity in that respect to me, and some of the things that I consider bugs in Discourse (eg, sending BBcode in text/plain parts) appear to be deliberate choices, so I would not be optimistic about getting some of the changes Fedora will want through quickly. > We have a ton of things going on, so we just had this as low > priority currently. If it needs to be moved up higher the reasons > for that would be great to know/discuss. I don't know the reasons, but somebody at Fedora does: they're the same reasons that fedoraforum.org exists. > While I know he's got many other things on his plate, I thought > Aurelien was still doing upstream work and helping folks. CCing him > on this, I could be mistaken. He's got a spate of commits every summer. But I think that abompard, as well as pingu and abadger, are a moot point here: they focused on core functions and scalability. Máirín is the author of the UI layer and has offered to work on these UX issues. I'm confident that she'll produce results for us! The question is will they get used by Fedora? Much as I detest forums personally, I consider this an open question for Fedora. The "try it, you'll like it" advocacy from forum proponents worries me, but Fedora is not my thing, Mailman is. You all have to decide. I will say I've seen this happen in several communities now (Python, Emacs). The communities seem to scale past the capacity of the communication channels. But to me (and the economics of information is what I do for a living), I don't think it's a problem with the channels, it's a PEBKAC. The *people* at the terminals don't have the bandwidth, and they're desperately searching for a way to reduce the time investment. But in my experience, they don't reallocate from fighting with email to more fruitful conversations on the channel (although they may be more polite with more moderation). Instead, they reduce engagement all around. And that's what I don't like about forums: in my experience, they undermine the productivity of the channel at the same time as they increase collegiality. YMMV, of course, but I evidently have a lot of company in this perception. :-( Steve _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
