Kevin Fenzi writes: > On 10/19/18 6:43 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > You know why the usage numbers bear that out? Because the upgrade to > > HyperKitty was mishandled and delayed over and over. We were screwed > > over by the fact that our infrastructure doesn't run on Fedora, so > > that made it harder to get it working. The initial deployment was very > > slow and unoptimized. Bugs in the UI remained unfixed in Fedora's > > installation even though upstream fixed them. I would not be surprised > > if upstream ignores us because we don't seem to be upgrading. > > Huh, you do realize that things take as long as they take, and there's > no magic wand for 'it's magically done'. mailman3 was a massive > undertaking with a very small group of developers, many of whom were > wanting things to be really done before releasing them. Yeah, as a core Mailman developer I was really disappointed when the whole crew of Fedora/RH-supported developers just disappeared without leaving behind successors. I understand why that happens, but I wish I'd known they were able to participate only as long as they were assigned to it. Unfortunately, it's clear from the current installation supporting this list that no, they didn't get things "really done", or at least they were restricted to their direct relationship with HyperKitty -- in Fedora Postorius, even the explanatory blurbs in the user config screens are frequently incomplete (eg, lack information about current, default, and inherited values) and at least one is outright confusing (the semantics of the associated variable are the reverse of the option name). Again, I understand why such things happen, but *somebody* is going to have to commit to better care and feeding of the channel, whatever software is supporting it. We at Mailman are very happy to help. We're also a small crew of part-timers, so that's going to be limited, but at least we're aware that Fedora's is one of the most heavily-used Mailman 3 installations, so we have a strong interest in it working well! Máirín's mail to our dev list got immediate and enthusiastic reaction. But we can't help if you have no support for upgrading to upstream current release; that's not our job (unless paid, and I'm not even sure that would break our developers loose from other responsibilities and core work). I'm not sure you can count on such support from Discourse, but I have said more about that elsewhere in the thread, so I won't belabor it here. > You can always ask why we aren't upgrading. In this case it's because we > are moving stuff to python36 from 34. If these fixes are urgent let us > know and we can re-evaluate and try and get things faster. I was under > the impression that the fixes were pretty minor. HyperKitty is a fairly complex piece of software. I never did make head or tail of it (most of my time is devoted to core Mailman, especially email security such as DMARC and crypto), and there's nobody associated with the Mailman project to teach me about it anymore. To me it's not surprising that the only things people are willing to touch are minor. And even the original developers are unlikely to be familiar with the current state of upstream, as upstream has changes, some significant I think. Steve _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
