On Mon, 2018-09-03 at 20:09 +0200, Andreas Tunek wrote: > Den mån 3 sep. 2018 kl 12:56 skrev Fabio Valentini <decathorpe@xxxxxxxxx>: > > > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2018, 09:13 Ron Yorston <rmy@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > Adam Williamson wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2018-09-02 at 08:58 -0700, stan wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 09:33:39 +0200 > > > > > Andreas Tunek <andreas.tunek@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > There is no root acoount on a default F29 installation. Also, you > > > > > > can't see the boot menu and I haven't been able to trigger it. > > > > > > > > > > Whoa! I'm not sure what that buys, but I'll change that as soon as > > > > > possible when I install it. That's crazy! Maybe someone wants to > > > > > imitate a Mac or something. > > > > > > > > It's a Change that was properly announced and extensively discussed on > > > > this list. > > > > > > Since some Fedora users may not read this list, I hope that these > > > changes will be prominently mentioned in the release documentation. > > > > > > Preferably for F30 as well as F29 so that users who only update to every > > > other release will also receive notification. > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > Well, one might argue that users who really want to run pre-beta releases of fedora are also expected to follow the discussions and announcements here. > > fedora 29 really isn't ready for end users yet (as witnessed by this thread) - it's not even in beta after all - so if you don't (or can't) keep up with the news and development discussions, you really shouldn't be running fedora 29 yet IMO. > > > > I know that doesn't help rescue the borked systems, but running alpha-quality code is bound to lead to problems, and users are expected to be able to deal with them - otherwise they should stick to stable releases. > > > > Fabio > > > > The thing is, if people do not test releases they will never be > stable. And even if I don't know how to access my F29 installation > from a chroot sometimes my testing is valuable to the project. Also, I > think that my testing has shown that a lack of root account and boot > menu has lead to a much worser user experience in certain cases. FWIW, I personally would like us to avoid such world-breaking bugs as this and the grub2 UEFI bug from reaching Rawhide or Branched as much as possible, and I'm frankly unhappy that both of those *did* a) happen and b) reach Rawhide and Branched, in 2018 we really ought to be able to avoid that. I think people ought to be able to run development Fedora and still have at least a reasonable expectation that we won't be so bad at making it that obvious disasters like this happen. More subtle bugs, sure, but anything this obvious should not make it in. Note that there is an option for running Branched with a little extra safety: just disable updates-testing . We enable it by default for Branched because we basically want folks to be testing those packages - in Branched, the distinction between u-t and 'stable' is mainly about trying to keep the compose package set less broken and less about user safety. But you *can* disable it, and thus benefit from testing by other Branched users, if you want to. If you did that, you'd never have gotten either the broken grub2 or the broken udev as both were caught in u-t. There is no such option for Rawhide, but you *do* at least have the option of reading test@ / devel@ and making sure no-one's complaining about their system failing to boot before you update. :) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
