On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Andrew Lutomirski <luto@xxxxxxx> wrote: >> On Jun 18, 2018, at 3:54 PM, Chris Murphy <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Getting journal support in the bootloader isn't going to happen. I've >> already talked to the various fs upstreams about it. >> > > Why are you talking to the fs upstreams? The problem is a bug in > GRUB, full stop. OK so you're going to blame uboot and syslinux and others for not supporting JBD2 and journal replay as well? I disagree that its worth the effort. > All this freeze crap that Fedora does is just > papering over the bug. Yeah I don't like any of that either, and in retrospect I should not have bought off on the idea. But that's getting off topic. >IMO the right thing to do is to get *GRUB* > upstream to have a fully functional implementation of *one* > widely-supported fs. Hmm, GRUB supports F2FS, and F2FS is > log-structured, right? So I don't see how GRUB could fail to read a > dirty filesystem correctly even if it wanted to. Journaled file systems have the journal bolted on. It's a completely different beast. To read any structure, there must be code. There's simply no code to read the XFS or ext3/4 log. It appears there was an attempt to get GRUB (and I think it's GRUB legacy) to support JBD2 but it was abandoned. I don't know the history. > Or someone could design a very simple, highly reliable, filesystem > designed to make it easy to do atomic-enough updates and to read > reliably. Think VFAT-like but with a full atomic swap of all FS > metadata. Or a dead-simple log-structured FS. /me ducks. > > Seriously, though, F2FS might be a fantastic choice for this purpose. UDF might be doable with multisession acting to ensure atomic operations, but that seems like a lot of work. If UEFI had gone UDF instead of FAT, it'd be a different story. F2FS might be sane. I rather like the idea of Fedora IoT leveraging F2FS. >> So add that to the list of packages that need an ESP syncing daemon if >> they don't want to be responsible for dynamically mounting and >> umounting the ESP. Fair enough. -- Chris Murphy _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/3ZYMPEURCBOEVP6NJUYQGYCDKQCF4DXD/
