On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Till Maas <opensource@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 02:30:20PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: >> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III > >> > If we're going to patch grub to expand the set of keys it will watch >> > for, is it possible to just expand the set to encompass all keys? We >> > don't really need to make it that hard to find the grub menu, do we? >> >> I think it needs to be made specific, unambiguous, and deliberate. Yes >> this means it is also obscure if you don't know the decoder ring, but >> worse is when the decoder ring is either random or changing all the >> time. But for that we get to thank companies that somehow find > > Accepting all keys is not random and is also not something that needs to > be changed all the time. Can you maybe show some scenarios where it is > actually a problem? Example 1: From the feature proposal why using F8 "1.2 On some machines ESC brings up the firmware-setup menu" OK well on one of my machines F8 brings up some firmware related menu. So that should mean F8 is squarely out. The point of this change from Esc is to avoid conflict. Well we have a new conflict with F8. So if the original logic holds for Esc, then it must hold for F8. If it holds for neither, provide an argument why it doesn't hold. Example 2: Instructions say "press any key" and for whatever reason the GRUB USB keyboard module doesn't actually recognize all keys on an extended key keyboard. This wouldn't surprise me one bit because Fedora, out of the box, doesn't recognize the keypad on my extended key keyboard which also doesn't have a numlock button. And is a numlock button something GRUB will recognize as "any key"? What about Fn? Caps lock? If you say any key it must be literally any key on any keyboard and it should always work and bring up the intended menu or it's a lie. And it's not OK to lie to users, except under really arduous circumstances. >The instructions for end-users should still be > clear, nevertheless, e.g. just tell them whatever button to press is the > best one, but also help the helpless who do not know which button to > press. This is not even under discussion in the proposed feature. It's a 1 second timout, it's entirely pointless to have any message. In other words, you too are advocating substantial modification of the feature proposal. Also the feature depends on ‘GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET’ which the GRUB manual describes as: ‘GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET’ In conjunction with ‘GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT’, set this to ‘true’ to suppress the verbose countdown while waiting for a key to be pressed before displaying the menu. This option is unset by default, and is deprecated in favour of the less confusing ‘GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=countdown’. So it's deprecated and I think it's specious to use deprecated GRUB features from the outset. >Also it would be awesome if it was still possible to easily > reboot to grub after the kernel took over, e.g. from the harddisk > password screen, GDM login screen and Gnome logout dialog. Then you can > just make it user-friendly and obvious. password screen is a plymouth feature request; from what I'm looking at gdm login and gnome logout dialog both have a restart option which gets me back to GRUB so I'm not following what different behavior you're proposing. -- Chris Murphy _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/7NK744V5SPMJ74ZB6AWGL7QVU3RKDI6D/
