Andrew Lutomirski (luto@xxxxxxx) said: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Miloslav Trmač <mitr@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> While I think you are right in some cases like cashier, isn't this > >> discussion really about the Fedora Workstation?! Since for this the > >> target user is a developer, can we just agree that in this case the user > >> needs both CLI and GUI apps (although some developers certainly sticks > >> to one of them). > > > > The gist is that > > * Nobody _should_ need to use a terminal: non-developers¹ don’t need it, and developers deserve a better environment. It’s “only” a matter of writing lots of new software. AFAICT Workstation would in some ideal future want to get to this state. (And non-Linux operating systems are getting closer and closer to this ideal over time.) > > Having watched people develop under Mac OS X, they have really shiny > things to play with. Xcode is pretty, and there are whole pile of > nice editors and such to use. Heck, even Firefox and Chromium are > gradually turning into developer tools as opposed to just being > browsers and debuggers. > > Nonetheless, the productive Mac OS X developers I know all have > something like an entire desktop devoted to just running terminals. > > Given that no one, on any OS I've ever seen*, has come up with > something better than a terminal for running scripts, watching log > messages scroll by, using fancy shell commands, etc., I think that > expecting Fedora to magically solve all these problems is both overly > optimistic and is an entirely inappropriate assumption to base the OS > design on. I'm not sure that GNOME Software is the right place to solve this, though - if I'm using the terminal to build things: - I shouldn't be searching for grep/sed/awk - those are part of the base operating system, and should be treated as such. - I shouldn't be searching for gcc, gcc-c++, make, etc. as separate promoted to GNOME Software applications; those should be treated as part of a development kit that's installed and updated as a unit, any more than I should be searching for libgweather or libdrm as part of installing a desktop app. - Even searching for -devel packages implies a "target == host" build sensibility that is relevant mostly to those developing Fedora, and not to most of those developers that I run into on a day-to-day basis (and likely not the developers we're targeting.) They're interested in using mock along with system libraries for RHEL/CentOS, using pip/npm/rubygems, etc. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
