On Wed, 17.07.13 00:08, Ding Yi Chen (dchen@xxxxxxxxxx) wrote: > > > that monitor /var/log/messages > > > > A) If someone is installing a program that expects this file, they can also > > install rsyslog. > > a) From what command they know they need to install rsyslog if they want > yum -y whatprovides /var/log/messages > gives no result. > If I did not follow the fedora-devel, I would not know why the > scripts failed. The release notes addition we suggested in the feature page tells you what to do. The feature page also says we'll add /var/log/README explaining the situation. It would be useful actually if you raised these points only after reading the thread, because this has been discussed quite a few times already on this thread. > b) For user that do upgrade from backup user data/scripts->fresh install->restore data/scrips > How they suppose to know that /var/log/messages is gone without checking the Release-Notes? > Not everyone have time to go through all the changes. If you look for the files, you should hopefully notice /var/log/README and understand. > > B) Fedora, RHEL, and most Red Hat derived distributions use > > /var/log/messages, but not all do -- for example, Rocks (common in HPC) > > breaks out syslog messages into individual files per facility. Debian and > > Ubuntu? Totally diferent. (/var/log/syslog) > > > > So, these third-party scripts need to be flexible anyway. I don't think this > > is a very strong point in the conversation. > > You falsely assume that: > a) 3rd party developers support every operating systems under the sun, including all version of Windows, DOS and MacOS. > b) 3rd party developers aware the changes > c) 3rd party developers can and will diligently update their script > just for Fedora. Well, but it is very simple: if the 3rd party developer notices the file is gone, he will look for them in /var/log, and hopefully see the README. If he doesn't he will likely start googling. And is likely to find something quickly, given that notoriety of this thread. We will continue to make changes in Fedora. We are the distribution which is supposed to bring you the new stuff first. This means changes, this means you need to keep yourself up-to-date a bit. This is just another iteration of this. If you never want any changes, then Fedora is simply not the distribution for you. Slackware might be. > > Don't tell me that you have not seen people writing multiple platform scripts like this: > > case $OS) > Windows* ) > some_windows_scripts > ...... > Linux* ) > grep /var/log/messages This *already* doesn't work. On Debian-based distros you would already have to grep /var/log/daemon.log. On ArchLinux-based distros you would already have to grep journalctl. I am sorry, but this is not where Unix was unified, ever. > For them: What? Fedora 20 does not work while Fedora 19 does? Blame Fedora then. > > And for fedora specific 3rd party scripts, now they need to add > additional check logic on their script. Sometime that's just too much > to ask. We ask this constantly on Fedora. Because Fedora is where innovation is supposed to take place, not where things are stay frozen in carbonite forever. (And let's never forget that Fedora is not the pioneer here. ArchLinux went journal-only already. We are not actually the innovators here, we just follow.) Lennart -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc. -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
