On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:37:31AM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote: > Am 11.02.2013 11:31, schrieb Olav Vitters: > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 07:59:22PM +0000, Ian Malone wrote: > >> In the end, more than any usability quibbles, the best reason to give > >> up on a project is when it refuses to listen to its end users. > > > > The GNOME release notes over various cycles have listed loads of changes > > which have been made based on the things that have been learned. This > > happened during 2.x as well as 3.x. > > > > Although you do not explicitly state it, it seems you were talking about > > GNOME. Vincent Untz phrased it much better than I ever could, but he > > basically pointed at the "Power Off". You can also read the release > > notes for loads of other changes > > this is all fine > > BUT why are things completly re-written and in a pre-alpha state > released replacing and destroying the users workload and after > that it takes years to fix all teh issues in the one or another way? I have a totally different view. Could you show me the bugreport about where GNOME destroyed something on a users machine? GNOME 3 was delayed by 2 cycles. Before that we made loads of releases available for testing. The 3.0 was really stable. > this big mistakes are happening over and over and the speed > these are happening is growing with each compontent instead > learn from mistakes and release software after it is finished > or do not make a rewrite at all Conflicts with release early and release often and the difference between testing by 50 people and releasing it for 500.000+. > it does users not help much if 2-3 years later things starting > to get useable again - why? because in the meantime someone > is changing the next subsystem against a pre-alpha and years > later people are proud to have fixed a lot of issues while > forget that they all were introduced by release unready software That was addressed by Vincent during FOSDEM. I mean: - real usability testing (help welcome!) I mean huge groups, non-biased, representing everyone, etc - real studies on biggest issues (help welcome!) I don't mean an internet survey, or a study where the outcome is 'do what some other OS does'. I mean something which is a followup on what Sun did ages ago. - better communication (help welcome!) Sometimes a huge difference to what is decided/planned and what news sites announce e.g. the poweroff I wanted to see changed more quickly. It could've, but a study would've sped it up greatly. I mean a huge usability study at least every 2 years, and smaller ones after each release. This to address the difference between: - one developer working on something - a few developers (project gets a few developers) - 50+ developers (jhbuild people) - 500+ people (tarballs/unstable packages) - 5000+? people (beta cycle - 3.x.0) - nothing - 500.000+? (distro release) Every time the number of people increases 10-fold, you'll find more issues. Expecting that a few developers will ever release something that would be good enough for 500.000 is just unrealistic. -- Regards, Olav -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
