On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 09:41:11PM -0500, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 07:56:53PM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 05:33:02PM -0500, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >> >On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 04:16:30PM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: >> >> On Tue, 2 Feb 2010, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > Not to reduce the debate to too much of a soundbite, but it almost >> >> > > seems like attempting to decide whether we want Fedora to be Debian, >> >> > > or to be something useful for users of it. I'd always pick the latter... >> >> > > >> >> > The problem with this sound bite is that Fedora Project and Fedora product >> >> > get mixed up. Users use a Fedora product. The Fedora Project attracts the >> >> > contributors who make various Fedora products. You can't continue to be an >> >> > attractive place for people wanting to experiment with creating different >> >> > visions that don't necessarily appeal to the target audience if they're >> >> > always going to be a second class citizen. >> >> > >> >> >> >> These are 3 if's and they're impossible to say for sure right now but over >> >> time we'll know: >> >> >> >> If we don't have a coherent vision for what our products are and who they >> >> are for.. >> >> >> >Let's cut this off right at the top :-) If a vision for what our products >> >are is a problem why don't we have the people producing the products explain >> >their vision? I keep saying that vision for products needs to come from the >> >people producing those products, not from the Board or FESCo. >> > >> >I agree with things like Robin's statement of how having a target audience >> >helps to market a product. What I think is wrong is to have the Fedora Board >> >define the target audience that then constrains all of the products that >> >Fedora produces. >> >> What? No. The Board has defined a default spin, and is working on a target >> audience for the default Spin. The Board has explicitly declared that SPINS >> are ALLOWED to define their OWN target audience. >> >Does the Board create the default Spin? No? So why shouldn't the Board >just ask the people who create the spin to clearly state their target >audience? The Board is responsible for Fedora overall. They are concerned with Fedora uptake and ways of increasing contribution. Based on that, they are trying to come up with personas that seem a likely candidate to use and eventually contribute to Fedora. Based on that, they are trying to come up with a target audience for the DEFAULT spin. The current default spin is the Desktop spin, yes. It was chosen partly because of 'status quo' and partly because it was offered up as such. If the Board comes up with a target audience for the default spin that does not match with what the Desktop spin is trying to accomplish, then perhaps some other spin will eventually fill that void. However, if you think the Board hasn't heard and taken into account what the target audience of the current Desktop spin is then you are just being silly. The proposals for the default spin being Desktop came from the Desktop team. The discussions on target audience involve members of the Desktop team. They're more than aware of what is going on, and at the moment the target audience seems to fit perfectly there. If it eventually doesn't, then something else might fill the void. If you'd like to next argue that the Board is simply crafting a target audience that fits the pre-defined Desktop spin, please don't. There is real thought going into this from a broader Fedora stance and simplifying this topic into a pissing match between spins is not productive. I might not agree with everything the Board has identified for the target audience, but I do at least appreciate the efforts and discussions that have taken place to get to that point. josh -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
