On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 03:37:42AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: >Jesse Keating wrote: >> This isn't a post-facto justification. The only "one-off" for F12 was >> the removal of the milestone previously known as alpha. > >Making the renaming a one-time-only change as I'm proposing would be "post >facto". > >> The rest of the milestone adjustment proposal came out of the Fedora >> Activity day, had lots of time to be communicated, discussed, and voted on >> by the community at large, FESCo specifically. > >I don't remember FESCo ever voting on that issue and I can't find it in the >meeting summaries either (and I also checked the ones from before I joined, http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-06-12/fedora-meeting.2009-06-12-17.01.html https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/162 >back to April). AFAIK, this was just posted to the fedora-devel-list for >feedback, got almost none, which was taken by you as "everyone is fine with >it" (whereas I think most people probably just ignored it as "yet another >wacky proposal which is never going to get implemented sent to fedora-devel- >list") and a few days later it was a rel-eng decision. (I remember having https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg00714.html https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Milestone_Adjustment_Proposal >been really surprised by this having been implemented ("Huh, there's a F12 >Alpha now?"), given that there was no consensus at all on the mailing list.) > >I don't doubt there was some in-person discussion at the FAD, but that will >never be as inclusive as a mailing list discussion (which never happened >because a huge list of "brainstorming results" (which turned out to actually >mean "almost decided items", which also wasn't clear from the wording or you >might have gotten more objections) was dumped onto the mailing list in one >e-mail). I think a small circle of people flying to some location to make >lots of decisions in person in one day is really bad for transparency in an >international project like ours. Ideas really need to be sent one at a time >to the public mailing lists. This is utter fucking bullshit. Nobody went off and decided. We made a very large point of NOT just changing stuff and we posted every single proposal that came out of that FAD. Some of them were approved, some of them are still pending. NONE of them were just changed without going through FESCo. josh -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
