On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 15:43 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > Multiple times a release cycle. Particularly if we're going to be > > working on things like new initrd creation systems and new init systems. > > See above - you can always boot last week's kernel. Breaking the initrd > generation can only screw up kernels that get installed *after* the > breakage. So just boot a kernel from before stuff got broken, then > generate a working initrd for the newer kernel manually. that doesn't help when its the init system itself breaking, or anything else in the bootpath that is outside of the initrd. > > > In previous rawhide cycles wireless has frequently broken, both driver > > and software to manage it. There were also days when the vpn software > > didn't work for various reasons. > > Ok, then. But then, that's the sort of thing that having more people > using Rawhide should lead to happening less often. I don't think there's > really any intrinsic reason wireless drivers have to break very often in > a dev branch. > > (And again, you usually have the option of booting a known-good kernel > in this case). No, it means that somebody will notice and complain a tad bit earlier, but they are still going to be broken. You're still relying on your userbase as the early warning detection system. > > > I don't disagree with that. I'm just not going to paint a picture where > > using rawhide as your main system won't lead to downtime and lost > > productivity. And as many people state, we're not going to find those > > important bugs until somebody does use it as their main system, either > > rawhide, a snapshot, or the final release. > > > > I'm more convinced that we'll get far faster/better results by investing > > more time/effort/code into the automated testing system. > > I think they're complementary. Automated testing is great, but it can > never catch everything, it's probably not really going to get close. And > automated testing should make Rawhide more reliable and hence help out > with this side of things (having more real fleshy people use it and yell > when stuff breaks). And there are people who can get involved in one > side but not the other (as you can see I have a great talent for poking > at difficult areas, but I couldn't write an automated test for > *anything*...) > > I don't see why there needs to be an opposition, really. And this whole > idea about having more people run Rawhide doesn't involve any 'extra' > coding. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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