On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Mark wrote: >> >> 2. I always was under the impression that gnome especially was a >> democracy but it turns out it's under dictatorship and then call it: >> "Meritocracy" with a dictator like taste. >> > > I have yet to see any Free and open source project work like a democracy. > There might be some democratic aspects to portions of the projects but > generally, who does the work gets to decide how things are done. If Linus, > says no, it doesn't get into the Linux kernel. Period. No voting either. > You have the full freedom to fork and convince others to adopt it but then > again, that would require actual work to be done. >> >> 3. Fedora has a community but when the community starts demanding >> something (use the browser mode as default) then it turns out that the >> actual fedora community, the ones that are helping to make fedora >> "better", are just a hand full of people. > > A entire distribution full of free and open source software is given to you > at no cost with the all the freedom to modify and redistribute the result. > I think it is more appropriate , to do less of "demanding" and more of > engaging in a discussion. People don't like being forced but they generally > prefer more participation. >> >> What i or any other community member says is simply being ignored. WE, >> the community want this feature to change and i'm not going to be >> silent about it! > > A community is inclusive of all its participants, developers and users > included. Finding consensus in a diverse community is a hard thing. As > seen in this thread, there is no one opinion that is representative of a > community. In Fedora, developers engage in a discussion or a debate, > sometimes a heated one but voting isn't a real discussion. It doesn't show > WHY people are for or against something which makes it much more harder to > make a decision either way. The why is important, perhaps more important > than gross number count. If you don't agree to me, you don't listen to the > community is a often repeated thing but isn't a valid statement. >> >> A very good example of the bad community direction is, to name someone >> again, Rahul. He always points you to your mistakes (fine in a way) >> but never adds (not in my experience) something constructive or >> helpful.... always a link to a wiki of somekind. >> > > Even in my first mail I did point out other things you could have done to be > more effective. I try to be helpful and give you more references instead of > repeating the same things over and over again. That is one of the reasons, I > prefer to document things when questions come up frequently on something or > the other. I am pretty sure, that is more helpful than your approach but > you seem to have penchant to convert this into a emotional personal fight > instead of just a technical debate. >> >> And for this entire issue where i made this thread for in the firste >> place. Don't expect me to be silent now. I will be vocal about this. >> fedora has a "freedom" sign > > Being vocal (and cross posting to increasing more mailing lists) doesn't > really change anything. Freedom is not anarchy. There are always rules about > how things are done within any community. > You do have the full freedom given by the project to do your own thing. I > even encourage you to do it. If you are really successful, that would be a > valid statement of your own viewpoints and will help others reconsider their > current opinions as well. The current strategy doesn't seem to work very > well. > > Rahul For the first time ever i fully agree on what you said and didn't find your post annoying to read. Just one thing about my "tactic".. i have none.. i have no preset plan of how i'm going to do this. i just do it when i'm writing my next response and till now that got me far (not talking about mailing lists now but life in general). I tend to do the right thing when i just do it without planning anything or considering every possible outcome. I think i am indeed getting done a part of what i hoped and that's raising awareness that this option in nautilus should be changed and that the majority of any linux related community is in favor of it. I don't have hard numbers to back that up but there are no hard numbers on community users so don't ask the impossible of me. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
