I'd like to point out one rather significant thing that came from my conversation with Kamil Paral today: Wayland has not been proposed as a change for Fedora 25 and no one outside the workstation group knows it's still a plan unless they follow our mailing list closely. Fedora QA doesn't test Wayland, Wayland test cases are not part of test matrices and so forth. Now for the rest of the Fedora Project we're going with X11 for F25 and Wayland is still just the experimental thingy. To make it default it needs to go through thorough testing by the QA team and it needs to be part of test matrices. Jiri BTW my laptop with F24 now freezes when running on Wayland and undocking. That's a deal breaker for me and I suppose it's an important use case for our target audience. Christian Stadelmann píše v Po 15. 08. 2016 v 14:21 +0000: > I'd like to know whether there are plans to make wayland default in > F25. I'm asking because there was no change proposed for this¹, > although Fedora Magazine is stating it will become default in F25². > > I know that there have been some considerations on this before³ and > some places where issues are collected⁴. > > Still, the wiki page is missing some important stuff: > > > How do we handle the fact that even XWayland applications cannot be > started as root? > I'm ok with dropping the "feature" of starting GUI applications as > root, but this might need some discussion and will need some > communication. Please note that this would drop any support for at > least a dozen applications such as GParted or grub-customizer. > And, as Kamil Paral stated on the december thread: > > > > I think we're going to get much worse publicity with this than > > primary selection. Inexperienced Linux users are used to run "sudo > > gedit", because terminal editors are unfriendly. Even I, with my > > years of experience, use "sudo meld" to merge configuration files, > > because I don't want to learn vimdiff, and graphical apps can > > simply offer a much superior experience. There was a discussion on > > devel list about this and everybody talked why running root gui > > apps is unsafe on X11, but nobody explained why it is unsafe on > > Wayland. Polkit and fine-grained permissions were proposed, which > > is a good idea, but it's not going to solve all use cases and it's > > not the current state of things in many apps. So unless there's a > > very good reason for deviating from current common practices, I'd > > put this onto "needs to be fixed" list. The more things we break > > without a really good reason, the more pushback we're going to get. > > Maybe this can be improved gradually over time? > > This point should at least be noted on the wiki list. Can someone > please add it? > > > Accessibility is pretty much unusable on wayland right now. > The wiki page lets me assume that nobody really worked on this > besides some minor bug fixings. Can we disable wayland for people > relying on a11y? If not, shipping wayland by default probably is a > bad idea. > > Virtual machine and remote desktop software: > Currently, it is impossible for remote desktop and virtual machine > GUIs (both under XWayland and Wayland) to grab keys. This is a major > regression for all users of these pieces of software.⁵ This point is > completely missing on the wiki page. Can someone please add it? > > > Stability: > There are more crashers in gnome-shell with wayland than with X11. > That's probably ok, but still worth considering. > > > Drivers: > Lastly, I don't know anything about support with non-Intel GPUs, > because their drivers (especially proprietary ones) used to mess up > pretty much last time I used them. > > > > ¹ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/ChangeSet > > ² https://fedoramagazine.org/whats-new-fedora-24-workstation/ > > ³ See e.g: > * "Plan to organize the Wayland-by-default effort" in late 2015, http > s://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/desktop@lists.fedoraproject > .org/thread/KL4TW7D263BL56HO7RGEODSYFRSTISYX/ > * "Wayland blockers for F24 default" in februar, https://lists.fedora > project.org/archives/list/desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/FWBG > WJALA2D52NZYU3VBUR3G4JCLO56W/ > > ⁴ See > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=WaylandRelated > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=WaylandRelated and > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=wayland > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features > > ⁵ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97333 and > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1285770 > -- > desktop mailing list > desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/desktop@lists.fedoraproje > ct.org
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