On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I'd like to point out one rather significant thing that came from my > conversation with Kamil Paral today: > Wayland has not been proposed as a change for Fedora 25 and no one > outside the workstation group knows it's still a plan unless they > follow our mailing list closely. > Fedora QA doesn't test Wayland, Wayland test cases are not part of test > matrices and so forth. > Now for the rest of the Fedora Project we're going with X11 for F25 and > Wayland is still just the experimental thingy. To make it default it > needs to go through thorough testing by the QA team and it needs to be > part of test matrices. Can someone flip the bits to make X11 the default again on F-25 then, it currently defaults to wayland. > BTW my laptop with F24 now freezes when running on Wayland and > undocking. That's a deal breaker for me and I suppose it's an important > use case for our target audience. > > Christian Stadelmann píše v Po 15. 08. 2016 v 14:21 +0000: >> I'd like to know whether there are plans to make wayland default in >> F25. I'm asking because there was no change proposed for this¹, >> although Fedora Magazine is stating it will become default in F25². >> >> I know that there have been some considerations on this before³ and >> some places where issues are collected⁴. >> >> Still, the wiki page is missing some important stuff: >> >> >> How do we handle the fact that even XWayland applications cannot be >> started as root? >> I'm ok with dropping the "feature" of starting GUI applications as >> root, but this might need some discussion and will need some >> communication. Please note that this would drop any support for at >> least a dozen applications such as GParted or grub-customizer. >> And, as Kamil Paral stated on the december thread: >> > >> > I think we're going to get much worse publicity with this than >> > primary selection. Inexperienced Linux users are used to run "sudo >> > gedit", because terminal editors are unfriendly. Even I, with my >> > years of experience, use "sudo meld" to merge configuration files, >> > because I don't want to learn vimdiff, and graphical apps can >> > simply offer a much superior experience. There was a discussion on >> > devel list about this and everybody talked why running root gui >> > apps is unsafe on X11, but nobody explained why it is unsafe on >> > Wayland. Polkit and fine-grained permissions were proposed, which >> > is a good idea, but it's not going to solve all use cases and it's >> > not the current state of things in many apps. So unless there's a >> > very good reason for deviating from current common practices, I'd >> > put this onto "needs to be fixed" list. The more things we break >> > without a really good reason, the more pushback we're going to get. >> > Maybe this can be improved gradually over time? >> >> This point should at least be noted on the wiki list. Can someone >> please add it? >> >> >> Accessibility is pretty much unusable on wayland right now. >> The wiki page lets me assume that nobody really worked on this >> besides some minor bug fixings. Can we disable wayland for people >> relying on a11y? If not, shipping wayland by default probably is a >> bad idea. >> >> Virtual machine and remote desktop software: >> Currently, it is impossible for remote desktop and virtual machine >> GUIs (both under XWayland and Wayland) to grab keys. This is a major >> regression for all users of these pieces of software.⁵ This point is >> completely missing on the wiki page. Can someone please add it? >> >> >> Stability: >> There are more crashers in gnome-shell with wayland than with X11. >> That's probably ok, but still worth considering. >> >> >> Drivers: >> Lastly, I don't know anything about support with non-Intel GPUs, >> because their drivers (especially proprietary ones) used to mess up >> pretty much last time I used them. >> >> >> >> ¹ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/ChangeSet >> >> ² https://fedoramagazine.org/whats-new-fedora-24-workstation/ >> >> ³ See e.g: >> * "Plan to organize the Wayland-by-default effort" in late 2015, http >> s://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/desktop@lists.fedoraproject >> .org/thread/KL4TW7D263BL56HO7RGEODSYFRSTISYX/ >> * "Wayland blockers for F24 default" in februar, https://lists.fedora >> project.org/archives/list/desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/FWBG >> WJALA2D52NZYU3VBUR3G4JCLO56W/ >> >> ⁴ See >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=WaylandRelated >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=WaylandRelated and >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=wayland >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features >> >> ⁵ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97333 and >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1285770 >> -- >> desktop mailing list >> desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/desktop@lists.fedoraproje >> ct.org > > -- > desktop mailing list > desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
