On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Sage Weil <sage@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > [Moving to ceph-devel] > > On Mon, 23 Apr 2018, Kai Wagner wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I would like to start the "tool's" discussion once again. I attended the >> Ceph Day in London last week and after a few beers after the event we >> started to talk about how Ceph upstream does issue and feature tracking. >> I had those conversation already several times at different events but >> every time the outcome was the same - "Should be improved!". >> >> The problem here is, that Trello is not made for what we're currently >> trying to use it for. On the other hand lots of those cards only have a >> single "headline" without any former context. This makes it really hard >> to follow and contribute. Also the linking between the tracker and >> trello is manual work. >> >> I would like to start a discussion about Jira again. It's possible to >> request an Open Source license which makes it possible to use Jira >> completely unlimited including all the Plugins. The >> "dashboard/openATTIC" team did that for many years already - >> tracker.openattic.org >> >> Within Jira bugs, features, improvements and as well as releases could >> be easily tracked. We would reduce the tool suite from two total >> different tools to just one tool which could be used for everything. I >> would volunteer here to help with any questions regarding Jira or the >> request process. > > (Note that there is a third tool here--github--that probably isn't going > away.) > > I'm game for a better tool. The main friction with change here is around > the bug tracking in redmine, just because there are so many issues there > covering such a large time period, but if we're talking about > feature/radomap/release tracking (which are already handled outside of > redmine) then I don't see that as a problem. > > I'm personally not super thrilled about jira because it's a closed > platform, even if they do offer free accounts for open source projects. > (Yes, github and trello are no better.) > > Right now the only trello board I really use is > > https://trello.com/b/ugTc2QFH/ceph-backlog > > and I only use it for a high-level view of feature work across the > project. The lists are per-topic or subsystem, which isn't (I think?) how > these things are normally shown (i.e., it's not kanban). The only other > thing it does it loosely track what is targetted at the next release via > colored labels. That's all pretty basic, and to be honest I don't know > that I need much more. > > On the other hand, it's not very useful for other contributors (especially > new ones) to come look at. That's partly because there is no detail > written for the cards, but that could easily be fixed by writing up some > notes for each item, linking to the relevant CDM discussions or etherpad > notes, and so on. > > So I guess my question are we looking for out of the tool(s), and what > is currently missing? I'm reasonable comfortable using proprietary tools for ephemeral-ish things like code review and feature/release tracking, but less comfortable using them for tracking bugs and backports, where the durable reference from the git history to the tool is more important. With proprietary tools, I think we should aim to maintain a posture where if they go evil, we can quickly drop them and move on without any long term pain. Having two trackers for bugs vs. features is awkward, but we're already in that situation with redmine+Trello, so I'm pretty open to adopting Jira as a Trello replacement, as long as we actually stop using Trello (don't want to increase the overall number of tools). I'm not a big fan of Trello so I'd happily make that jump tomorrow if enough people were into it. If we ever want a unified tracker for everything then I think it needs to be free software, and it'll need to be featureful enough to satisfy the Jira/Trello itch -- I'm not sure if that exists today, it's possible that redmine is as good as it gets in the free tool space? We should also consider whether there are redmine extensions available that give us the feature tracking functionality that we would like. John > sage > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe ceph-devel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe ceph-devel" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
