Here are some web links ... >From Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/ubuntus-bash-and-linux-command-line-coming-to-windows-10/ iAnd this PC World article mentions apt-get: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3050473/windows/heres-how-windows-10s-ubuntu-based-bash-shell-will-actually-work.html And just one more for grins: http://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/ Christopher Chaltain writes: > Will apt-get really work in Windows? Adding bash support is a long way from > adding Debian's packaging system. This would be great if it were true, but > I'm a bit skeptical. > > On 19/07/16 13:08, Janina Sajka wrote: > > John, you're correct about most people, but not about most computer > > professionals, especially not about computer programmers. > > > > My evidence is how Microsoft is now adding bash from Ubuntu to Windows > > 10. > > All the programmers I know who use Windows are seriously jazzed about > > this new upgrade to Windows. Just imagine using apt-get to add some > > package ton the Windows command line environment. > > > > This has been an interesting thread. I'm looking forward to reading > > more. > > > > My own personal experience predates accessible Unix shell access. I say > > Unix, because Linux had not yet been invented. The only way to access a > > Unix shell in the 1980's was to have an account at some company or > > university, or to buy monthly access at some service like The Well, or > > eventually at netcom. Where I lived, that also meant paying for the > > modem call by the minute, because the calls from San Francisco to the > > Well, or to Netcom were intra latta calls, and were charged pretty hefty > > fees. > > > > But, this background is important, I think, because we didn't exactly > > have command line access at services like Compuserve, the Source, or > > Delphi Internet services. What we had was a menu of options. Sometimes > > the menu would be something you could arrow or tab through, sometimes it > > was just printed on screen and you had to type the command you wanted at > > the prompt. > > > > How is that like gui desktops? More primitive, yes, but it's object > > oriented. You select an object and activate it. Then, you do that again > > on the next screen. So, early gui was no problem from the conceptual > > point of view, because it was just a menu of options presented in > > hieroglyphs rather than words. Of course, those hieroglyphs--we learned > > to call them icons--weren't accessible because we didn't have a way to > > associate them with words. We had to do some serious advocacy to get the > > operating environment retrofitted in a way that would allow words to be > > associated with those icons. > > > > In the early days of gui accessibility several books in braille appeared > > designed to teach us this graphical environment. I remember a title from > > the U.K. called "Windows Explained" that came with wonderful graphic > > representations of various screens on Windows computers. If titles like > > that aren't available today, somebody should start writing. From the > > discussion here it's clear to me that a good, conceptual overview of how > > the gui works, along with some good braille graphics, would likely prove > > highly valuable. It would be even more valuable if it showed Microsoft, > > Apple, Chrome and Linux -- but I'm probably dreaming to ask for that > > much! <grin> > > > > PS: I got my first real cli when Netcom created a pop in San Francisco. > > The day I hear about that I signed up. I expected to find menus when I > > logged in, but no, I just got a shell prompt. I was flummoxed. I called > > for tech support, because the docs they sent in the mail were only in > > print. The owner of the company was doing his own tech support back > > then. When he realizaed I was blind, he showed me how to read usenet > > news groups and man pages. He promissed to help me if I got stuck, but > > with usenet and man in my skillset, I never had to call him again. This > > is a true story, but you were all asking about gui, not cli. > > > > Janina > > > > > > John J. Boyer writes: > > > My experience is that most blind people like a GUI with a screen reader > > > better than the command line. Those who have teouble with GUIs, like me, > > > seem to be decidedly in the minority. > > > > > > John > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 12:29:39AM +0200, Anders Holmberg wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > Thats intresting. > > > > I am the total oposit guy. > > > > I had and have no problems learning gui’s but for me the command line is to hard. > > > > Although i began with a debian command line system 16 years ago and gave that up for windows a couple of years. > > > > Now i am back to vinux and a mac with osx. > > > > I whish i was patient enough to learn command line. > > > > Maybe i am to dum or maybe i am lazy. > > > > /A > > > > > On 17 Jul 2016, at 22:57, Sam Hartman <hartmans@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "John" == John J Boyer <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > > > > > > > > > > John> I';ve been trying to get a feel for GUIs for years. Sighted > > > > > John> colleagues are no help. They only tell me how they use the > > > > > John> mouse. They won't use a keyboard shourcut even when it is much > > > > > John> simpler. For example, they will scroll down a long document > > > > > John> instead of using ctrl+f to find something. i've tried > > > > > John> unsuccessfully tpo find a Jaws trainer. After I reinstalled > > > > > John> Windows 7 recently Jaws wouldn't install. I'm now using NVDA > > > > > John> and I don't think I'll go back to Jaws. > > > > > > > > > > This is really interesting, because now I'm realizing that I don't know > > > > > how to teach someone GUIs on modern equipment at all. > > > > > I don't know if I can find a solution, but I'll see if I can toss the > > > > > question around. > > > > > > > > > > I hear your frustration completely about people who know one way of > > > > > doing something and who aren't even great at articulating that. > > > > > > > > > > I started to say "well, understanding the mouse at least well enough to > > > > > get your screen reader to click places and stuff is worth knowing. > > > > > That's true of course, although I just realized that most of the screen > > > > > readers I use these days actually wouldn't let me click usefully on a > > > > > scroll bar if I wanted to. > > > > > So, even if you wanted to be incredibly slow, you can't get work done > > > > > just understanding the mouse operations. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for helping me understand an interesting challenge; I'll let you > > > > > know if I come up with anything that might help at all. > > > > > > > > > > --Sam > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > -- > > > John J. Boyer; President, > > > AbilitiesSoft, Inc. > > > Email: john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org > > > Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit > > > Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA > > > Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with > > > disabilities which are available at no cost. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Email: janina@xxxxxxxxxxx Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list