Thank you, Dave, for having the courage to comment on this joke. I know it has become pretty commonplace for people to use such pseudo-biblically based puns or references in jokes (I think those of us who are Christians even sometimes can thoughtlessly cross this line!), and I also find myself not offended but saddened that such vitally important issues can be used so lightly. I suppose this whole subject is probably really offtopic as far as linux is concerned, but totally on topic for one's day-to-day life and eternal destiny. If a couple of people on this list can state clearly that they don't believe in God or that they think such issues are not for the 21st century, then i can also declare that there most certainly is a God and that salvation comes only through his Son, Jesus christ. Ironic that somebody should mention carnage. carnage has never been brought about by Christians fully devoted to Jesus christ and to sharing him with others, but rather has been brought about by the evil in people's hearts. If there is a way to twist light into darkness and use it for their own purposes, people and nations will find it and do it. If there was no evil in people's hearts in the first place, a message that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life" (bible, John 3:16) could never become an excuse for the "carnage' of which you speak. It has indeed been the excuse, not the reason. Proselytizing? If you mean forcing somebody to believe as I do, that isn't possible anyway and would be a waste of time. If you mean sharing what I believe and know about my mighty god and wonderful savior, and praying with all of my heart that others will also come to that belief and knowledge--if that's proselytizing--then I am guilty and not ashamed of it! Your view of "proselytizing" depends on what you choose to believe about truth. If anything one wants to believe is true for that person, then nobody should ever share a particular belief with the goal of persuading others of the truth. If, on the other hand, you believe there is such a thing as "true truth" "absolute truth" that doesn't come and go with peoples' beliefs (and I do believe that!), then it will be important to speak that truth and not let it become a subject of levity. It has nothing to do with personal offense, but with caring about people and not wanting them to learn to take lightly such all-important matters. Cheryl