hi, ok thanks for the info on that. charles On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Brent Harding wrote: > It's secure shell. Basically, encrypted telnet connections, and more. > At 08:37 AM 11/20/01 -0600, you wrote: > >hi luke, and listers. luke, I have heard of ssh but, wasn't sure just > >what that is. is that something like telnet, or like a mod just wondering. > >thanks > >charles > > > > > >On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Luke Davis wrote: > > > >> For streaming you would use something dynamic such as SSH, not PGP. > >> However I see your point. > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Brent Harding wrote: > >> > >> > Wow, so how would the public/private key encryption work to get the books > >> > rolling? I suppose, using something like pgp, I could generate you a > key if > >> > I were the publisher and send it to you on a disk, and encrypt all the > >> > content I want you to have with it. But this involves a manual process > for > >> > every individual. Thus for example, pgp shoutcast can't exist, in the > >> > current protocols since only one key can decrypt any one data stream. And > >> > also, some how you have to turn the encrypted content in to audio that > can > >> > be transmitted through such things if you wanted a pay to hear audio > stream > >> > for whatever it be. I was thinking of the idea once, but winamp would > choke > >> > on the encrypted mp3 stream and refuse to transmit it, although in > linux to > >> > decode you could theoretically do something like > >> > lynx --source http://aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd:port | pgp -d > >> > and enter your password for your private key. > >> > At 11:46 AM 11/19/01 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >Martin, your message is apt and to the point. And, your instinct for a > >> > >FREE software digital talking book player is also on the mark. Now is a > >> > >very, very good time for such a player to come into existence. As > someone > >> > >who continues to be very involved in the development of the > NISO/DAISY dtb > >> > >standard, I'd like to pose a challenge to the programmers among us: > >> > > > >> > >Please give us a dtb player or two which supports the new NISO/DAISY > >> > >standards--mostly. I say"mostly" because it is not the end of the > world if > >> > >you can't immediately support MPEG. Please know that the NISO/DAISY > >> > >standards people are keenly aware of the problems posed by specifying > >> > >MPEG. Regretably, ogg-vorbis was not judged ready for prime time yet--so > >> > >if someone wants to work on that, that would also be helpful, because we > >> > >truly need a GPL compression package that provides quality files that > will > >> > >compete well with MPEG. > >> > > > >> > >Let me say why we need a GPL dtb player right now. I am seriously > >> > >concerned that agencies will impose some kind of encryption technologies > >> > >which they will not want to describe to GPL programmers. That would be > >> > >most unfortunate. Far better, imho, for this community to show that a > GPL > >> > >player can really do the job of accessing (both text and audio) dtbs > well. > >> > >Far better to show that public/private key encryption may just be > adequate > >> > >enough. > >> > > > >> > >The pendulum has swung away from tight controls, at least among the > >> > >libraries that serve our communities today. Frankly, the earlier version > >> > >of the NISO standard was a bit stricter about copyright > enforcement--what > >> > >the publishers like to call "Digital Rights Management." I think even > our > >> > >earlier, stricter model was still smarter than what we've been seeing > from > >> > >commercial ebook publishers. The commercial publishers are putting the > >> > >onus on the user and are killing industry prospects by doing so. The > >> > >earlier recommendations are still online at: > >> > > > >> > > http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso/drm.htm > >> > > > >> > >In summary, this earlier document expects that some, but certainly not > >> > >all, titles produced as digital talking books will need to be restricted > >> > >to qualified recipients in order to maintain long standing programs of > >> > >free access to books--as with NLS here in the U.S. This would also apply > >> > >to U.S. agencies such as RFB&D. It would, in fact, be the copyright > >> > >management scheme which would distinguish titles produced in the NISO > >> > >standard as qualified titles under the so-called "Chafee Amendement" to > >> > >U.S. Copyright law. Chafee is a good thing, and we should not lose it. > >> > > > >> > >The DMCA is another matter entirely. The NISO thinking was to put the > >> > >emphasis on catching willful violaters, not on needlessly encumbering > >> > >honest users. My expectation is that public/private key can do this very > >> > >well--and can do it in a platform independ matter. > >> > > > >> > >Of course there's a chicken and egg aspect to all of this. Who would > build > >> > >a player when there's nothing to play? How would one even test it? > Yet, I > >> > >would think that this community would not want to leave the > definitions of > >> > >what's possible to agencies who are far more steeped in proprietary > >> > >software than is probably good for the community at large. So, let me > >> > >simply offer this: I will find some NISO/DAISY content for you to test a > >> > >player with if you are building a GPL player and need something to work > >> > >with. Just write me privately. > >> > > > >> > >Lastly, let me say just a little more about how much content is actually > >> > >out there. There is virtually none in the newest version of the standard > >> > >simply because it's still not 100% nailed down. The NISO folks have > until > >> > >December 17 to vote on the specifications that were submitted to them > just > >> > >a few weeks ago. You should know that we truly do not expect any > problems > >> > >with this voting, and we do expect a lovely Christmas pressent shortly > >> > >after December 17. > >> > > > >> > >There is a fair amount of content available to earlier incarnations > of the > >> > >digital talking book specifications as produced by DAISY. In particular, > >> > >it may be important for players to support the new NISO/DAISY > >> > >specifications at: > >> > > > >> > > http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso > >> > > > >> > >as well as the older, DAISY 2.0 specifications which can be found at: > >> > > > >> > > http://www.daisy.org > >> > > > >> > >In particular, RFB&D has been quietly testing textbooks in several K-12 > >> > >schools for blind children around the U.S. They are hoping to begin > >> > >offering about 3,000 titles encoded in DAISY 2.0 to all their clients > >> > >sometime during 2002. Also, the talking book programs at CNIB and RNIB > >> > >(U.K.) are expecting to launch programs for their clients in the > spring of > >> > >2002 with approximately2,500 titles in each. So, as you can see, content > >> > >does already exist in the older DAISY 2.0 specification, though it is > not > >> > >yet generally available. > >> > > > >> > >Last point on the encryption issues. We expect that whatever copyright > >> > >based encryption/decryption is involved needs to be nationally based. In > >> > >other words, the laws that authorize free programs for blind (and > >> > >otherwise print disabled) people differ country to country. So, any > >> > >support for a particular solution needs to be modular in order to handle > >> > >such national differences. > >> > > > >> > >I want to end on a more cheerful point. Even mainstream publishers are > >> > >beginning to realize that encumbering users is a bad way to promote the > >> > >value of electronic publishing. Please take a look at this website: > >> > > > >> > > http://www.openanebook.org > >> > > > >> > >It is intended to be a place for publishers of all kinds to offer their > >> > >free content and their free tools. So, if you know of any, please offer > >> > >them up there. And, if you have influence with any blindness agency or > >> > >ebook publishers, please get them to join DAISY and/or OEBF. We need > >> > >broader participation in both places in order to realize a vision of > >> > >epublishing which creates accessible titles that are comfortable and fun > >> > >to use while still paying authors and editors for the value they add. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On > >> > >Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Martin G. McCormick wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> I certainly hope that players for DTB's will be available > >> > >> for Linux when the technology actually begins to bear fruit. > >> > >> > >> > >> This truly is a wonderful next step in the Talking Book > >> > >> program. Just think of the logistical problems of moving and > >> > >> caring for physical materials that this solves. There will still > >> > >> need to be traditional Talking Books for many years to come, but > >> > >> I think this is the future and it may get to a point where there > >> > >> won't need to be as many physical recordings produced as there > >> > >> are now. > >> > >> > >> > >> The one thing I see as holding things up is the one > >> > >> artificial technical issue and that is DRM or Digital Rights > >> > >> Management. > >> > >> > >> > >> How is that going to be accomplished? The standards > >> > >> document simply says that digital rights management will be > >> > >> supported but probably wisely does not prescribe exactly what > >> > >> sort of mechanism will be used. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hopefully, being eligible to receive traditional Talking > >> > >> Books and Braille materials will enable one to also receive any > >> > >> DTB's they are entitled to receive. > >> > >> > >> > >> In the main-stream consumer world, digital rights > >> > >> management has not been doing too well. Some systems are hacked > >> > >> almost before they are released. Other systems tend to do the > >> > >> opposite and malfunction in ways their developers never thought > >> > >> of to cause honest users of the technology to be denied service. > >> > >> > >> > >> Some rights management systems have even gained the > >> > >> distinction of suffering from both maladies. The crackers > >> > >> de fang the protection and the honest users discover that the > >> > >> software thinks they are thieves because of something their > >> > >> equipment or they accidentally did. > >> > >> > >> > >> This issue, not technology, has held up everything from > >> > >> digital audio tape a decade or so ago to present-day high-definition > >> > >> television systems. > >> > >> > >> > >> Linux and FreeBSD should actually be good test beds for > >> > >> this technology because it is based on open-source models and any > >> > >> hanky panky mechanisms such as back doors or scripting > >> > >> applications are a little easier to police than they are in > >> > >> proprietary operating systems. > >> > >> > >> > >> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK > >> > >> OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Network > Operations Group > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Blinux-list@redhat.com > >> > >> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >-- > >> > > > >> > > Janina Sajka, Director > >> > > Technology Research and Development > >> > > Governmental Relations Group > >> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > >> > > > >> > >Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > >> > > > >> > >Chair, Accessibility SIG > >> > >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > >> > >http://www.openebook.org > >> > > > >> > >Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper, > >> > >Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp > >> > > > >> > >Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther > >> > >King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at > >> > >http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp > >> > > > >> > >Learn how to make accessible software at > >> > >http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >> > > > >> > >Blinux-list@redhat.com > >> > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > > >> > Blinux-list@redhat.com > >> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> Blinux-list@redhat.com > >> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Blinux-list@redhat.com > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list >