Exactly, Shuttle didn't work. I don't think this will. People who are all into United will say that this is a good thing and they will fly them, but I think the general public won't. They are one of the big guys, why don't they just admit it and fix themselves before they try to take on a market they really don't understand (as proven by Shuttle)? I mean, who over there is on drugs? Clay - SEA -----Original Message----- From: Alireza Alivandivafa [mailto:DEmocrat2n@xxxxxxx]=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Ted In a message dated 11/19/2003 10:40:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, clay.wardlow@xxxxxxxx writes: << So, will it work? My own personal opinion, this will do United in; they need to cut costs on their own airline before starting a "new" airline. What do you all think? >> Well Shuttle did not work, and that is essentially what Ted is. UA does have lower costs now, so that might help. Still, it is not just the costs but maximizing the return on those costs. Efficiency is at least as big a part of the success of Low Fare carriers (especially WN, who do not have the lowest labor costs).