On 1/11/22 04:53, Tim via users wrote:
Tim:
If a graphical user interface needs instructions to be usable, it's
failed in its creation. The whole point of having such an
interface is that you can see what's on offer, and how to use it.
Samuel Sieb:
Are you trying to tell me that if I gave a system running Mate to
someone that has never used a computer, they would somehow
automatically know how to use it?
Do you think it'd be hard to work out? At some stage we all were first
users. I never found it hard to work out how to use such an interface.
Phones and tablets, on the other hand, required a lot of hunting around
all over the place.
My sons recognize that I am an old foggie that has to ask how things are
done on my smartphone (currently Samsung Galaxy A01). ARGH!!!! :)
And trying to send a text message when the phone is busy 'helping' me
with my spelling? And fixing all those Hebrew transliterations?
What we put up with!
Lots of years ago, my then current IT manager commented that this is
probably the end of knowing the guts of what are in our desktop
computers. At least my first CPS prof taught us about black boxes and
choosing WHAT would be our black box; he helped build one of the first
multi-user computers in the late '50s.
The current generation wizz along with their touch screens. It is
understandable that the direction of the UI is for it to work well for
their understanding. Unless they need something hefty to run AutoCAD or
the such, they tend to work on tablets anyway and when they really need
to type, they have their separate BT keyboard. This is where things are
going. I am perfectly comfortable that the mainline UI is using these
users as their focus. For the rest of us there is Xfce and the like.
Don't ever hold up Windows as an example of good design! But the
idea, which was *NOT* Windows invented, of organised menus,
applications in individual windows, and a taskbar to control them,
is one of the most productive interfaces.
Do you have any evidence for that? But besides, Gnome still has most
of that. I have no need for a menu of applications or a taskbar. I
have more screen space and quicker access without them.
Windows never had organised menus, it was always all dumped into a
disorganised clutter. I don't recall who came up with the taskbar
first. And I saw applications in individual windows long before I saw
it in Windows.
Are you aware that desktop systems are becoming a minority now. I
had to convince my work to let me have a desktop instead of a laptop
for software development.
That may be, but I've yet to encounter any touch screen laptops.
They're a rarity. Putting a touch screen style interface on a non-
touch screen is just stupidity.
That list of applications can be arranged if you want. You can make
folders and you can move the icons around. But I don't even use any
of that. It's much faster to start applications with the
keyboard. Press the Logo key, type a few characters, hit enter.
I've never found that faster. And for one thing, you've got to know
what to type. It doesn't help that many applications have lunatic
names.
With Mate, I would have to click on the applications menu, guess
which category it would be under, carefully move the mouse to get the
right menu, then click to start it.
Seriously? You'd have to *guess* that office software might be in an
office category? Categorised menus would be the *only* way that some
people might find some program that they've never used, or heard of,
before. It's either that, or just go around randomly running every
application you find on your icon screen. Yeah, that's a really
intelligent interface design, not.
And you're not forced to do that, either. You can dump a gazillion
icons on the desktop if you want to. Or shortcuts on task bars.
Since most applications tend to be mouse operated, anyway, it's less
painful to be swapping between mouse and keyboard and just keep using
the same interface device.
You're free to use whatever DE you want, but stop being so
negative about Gnome. It's not helpful and what are you saying
about all the people that actually like it and are very productive
with it?
Stop being a Gnome apologist. Current Gnome *is* a bad idea, Gnome
defenders are the new flat-earthers. I'm quite sick of people who
can't take criticism and keep la-la-laing with their fingers in the
ears any time someone points out the crappiness of something, defending
it's horrors to the death as the new way.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list -- users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
