On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 10:48:26PM -0500, John Mellor wrote:
On 2019-12-30 5:52 p.m., Chris Murphy wrote:
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:02 AM John Mellor <john.mellor@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I've complained about this issue before. Its a defective design
decision made by the Gnome people, some of whom I suspect to be
ex-Windows people trying to sabotage the desktop ;^0
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
Your email is 1) inconsiderate, specifically it is vapid and without
thought. It's not rational. It's not factual. 2) it is not respectful,
specifically it's transparently an intent to evoke an emotional
response by using "Windows" and "sabotage" as insults. You are
accusing people you do not know, have no evidence of, of willfully,
intentionally, destroying your experience and the experience of
others.
Thank you for providing a link to the CofC document. I may have been
misinterpreted in my attempt at humour (note the emoji in the
context), and will therefore refrain from such in the presence of a
few people with sore funnybones.
Supported. In other times I tried humour in Linux places - but chances
are good it won't often be understood as such any more. Not with even a
thousand smileys ...
Apologies.
However, I believe that you have completely missed the point of the
threads. If Gnome (for example) is not API-safe and failures may
occur when upgrading its components and/or apps, then a suitable
workaround would possibly be to install only those app updates over a
reboot, and allow the other packages to be updated normally and
without requiring a reboot.
If I can manage my system with a CLI, I try it. Instead of using
some GUI.
With a gui you normally have an extra chance of failure - so removing
the chance, by avoiding it, is my effort to get the job done as fast and
safe as possible. Keep it simple. If you don't need the extra layer
of a GUI (Gnome or others): why use it? So even for an upgrade I use
the command line on a TTY, with a mostly shut-down X. Works nearly
flawlessly on Fedora since around three years ..
But don't forget this: the whole idea behind these reboots and offline
updates, and its implementation, seems to allow a typical Fedora user,
without too much knowledge about the system, to upgrade their system
with minimal effort and minimized risk. Meaning more users are
getting enabled to run the system. And the stats, as quoted by
R. Hughes earlier, seem to confirm they're right with this approach.
My favorite part in this whole thread, because I think it's honest,
and important:
Richard Hughes:
"The Unix that you think you are using does not exist any more, I'm
sorry to say."
Basically with Linux in 2020 one neither has a very UNIX-like system,
nor is it Windows: it's just a modern Linux, some sort of hybrid of
both a more UNIX-like Linux and Windows, produced as a multi-billion
dollar industry product. And I have doubts it's "defective". It's
different, and its target consumers seem to be quite different from
those in its early days.
To drive the point with the industry-designed Linux home: Remember
that around 2017 the Linux kernel alone had
"1,670 first-time [!] developers over the course of just under 13
months. Remember that 4,319 developers overall contributed to the
kernel during this time". (Quoted from the Linux Kernel Report 2017)
And only 8.2% did their work on the kernel unpaid (again: see Linux
Kernel Report 2017).
This simply means: the old nerd tool and UNIX-like Linux is pretty
much gone. And to answer the question in the subject line: Yes, there
are aspects in a modern Fedora that are more Windows-like than the old
Linux. And no: I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.
So if people really want a UNIX-like system, then, sorry, they need
something else - and there are still options out there for that.
Regards,
Wolfgang
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