Re: Proposal for some changes for Chinese Fonts in Fedora 13.

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Added fonts list in Cc.

>>>>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:42:45 -0500,
>>>>> Qianqian Fang <fangqq@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> sorry, recent with gmail account.
> On 03/10/2010 02:35 AM, Peng Wu wrote:
>> Thanks for notifying me this, I missed the hintings for Latin glyphs.
>> After this discussion, I will post changed font conf files on bugzilla for review.
>> I will try to use the same technique in UMing confs(maybe will be switched to UKai):
>> ...
>> <match>
>> <test name="lang" compare="contains">
>> <string>zh</string>
>> </test>
>> <test name="family">
>> <string>sans</string>
>> </test>
>> <edit name="family" mode="prepend" binding="strong">
>> <string>Bitstream Vera Sans</string>
>> <string>DejaVu Sans</string>
>> <string>WenQuanYi ZenHei</string>
>> </edit>
>> </match>

> well, syntax is one thing, the more important is which fontconfig
> file, and what prefix number will you use.

> In the past, this was done by font package itself in Fedora: if a
> font wants to be the default, it simply sets a prefer list in its
> own fontconfig file; if multiple maintainers want their fonts
> to be the default, they will have to compete the prefix number:
> the smaller number wins (unless the later ones use prepend_first).

> To avoid this mess, I had proposed a set of cjk specific config
> files with clean and centralized settings, you can see the
> whole proposal here:

The outcome of both solutions may be same unless both
solution is mixed up. either of solutions has advantages and

The centralized solution is simple right. it works enough
for simple requirements like:

 * you are a kind of SIers who need to provide only the
   solution of the default sets of fonts for customers,
   because you don't need to think about a lot of
   preferences which may conflicts each other.

 * you don't care of multilingualization on the system or
   just need to care of single/few language(s), because the
   <prefer> list is a global configuration and can't be
   applied for the specific languages. this often prevents
   the expected behaviour if the script could be used for
   other languages too but want to use the different fonts
   for them.

 * you always mandate your customers/users updating
   65-nonlatin.conf to use the extra fonts by default on the
   system. which isn't in the list or is lower priority in
   the list.

Any of the above issues are important for distributors since
it's quite hard to figure out all of requirements and
preferences. it would be really nice every fonts packages
potentially can be used without any additional
modifications. activating the fonts with the installation
would be ideal --for instance, the script to bring the input
methods up at the startup time was centralized in xinit
package in the past and hardcoded there. we had frustrated
when we want to make any changes. now it leaves to the IM
packages. users can use anything they want without modifying
the centralized thing.

Also you are trying to explain the mess of the separate
rules idea though, only difference between both are where it
happens --one is on the filesystem, one is in the file. both
should potentially has same issue if one who has different
thoughts and preferences. though our idea is more complex
than yours right since it could be broken with the rule from
another package. this concern would be most likely when the
packagers makes any changes selfishly. however that can be
avoided or fixed. that's why we have the packaging policy
and guidelines to not mess up and explain what's a must to
do and required. thinking about things that not following
that way makes no sense here.  If there are any issues in
the guidelines, it would be good to point that out,
explaining the detailed case and improve it for the future


> but briefly, what you need to do is to update 65-nonlatin, and
> add two cjk specific config files: 65-language-zh.conf and
> 65-language-ja.conf, see


> unfortunately, Fedora people seemed not to be very keen to this solution,
> for some reasons, and the proposal is currently stalled. Despite that,
> I got response from Arne, the CJK fontconfig maintainer for Ubuntu
> that he is interested to this:


> so, I still highly suggest you considering this cleaner solution if you
> want to wire up the CJK font orders. Of course, you have to
> communicate with Jens and Akira more on this matter.

> just a side note, use binding=strong is generally not preferred.
> use smaller prefix number if you want to overwrite other rules.

I agreed with this part. Peng, please have a look at
first and if you need anything else rules not at that page,
please bring that up on the fonts list before changing the


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