I hear bells ringing. These platforms are not established for the long term. That was one of the appeals of selecting IRC and mailing lists for those communities in the 'old days'. Those platforms are highly resilient to the passage of time. I hope that you hear me when I ask that these decisions be weighed with the same rigor and criteria that brought things to their current state. When these platforms fail, and they will eventually, IRC and mailing lists will still be here, but, the contact interfaces for those foss communities will have been moved around and back, thereby introducing an instability to those organizations. Discord's not even an open source platform. And the rush to the decision. Is this decision influenced by IBM? Castles out of straw. Something smells really bad about everything I've seen in terms of movements in Fedora over the last year or two. Without violating any NDAs, since I have not signed any relevant to this, you're not attracting new contributors because there's a coordinated corporate takeover of the Linux space between a few big companies that's been going on for five years, which cause culture and project changes that impact the draw dynamics, and over the next two years you'll see the impact on Github after it is radically altered in an initiative that has not yet been announced, that no one asked for, and will have too much money in it to fail immediately -- in addition to trickle-down cultural changes in various open source communities like this one implemented by paid staffers whose purpose is to shape things to fit in line with that roadmap. A response isn't necessary to this question, I want to leave it rhetorical, and I hope you ask it of yourself: Are the contributions you are permitting preserving the future of Linux? Some of it's Embrace, extend, extinguish. Some of it's just poor light on a dark journey. Some it's lack of planning. I won't make claims as to what's going on with Fedora, but, something is. -C On Mon, 2020-11-09 at 16:32 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > Hi all. At today's Fedora Council "virtual face-to-face" meeting, we > decided that it's time to move our discussion from this mailing list > and IRC to more modern platforms: namely, Discourse via > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ and Matrix via ... something > yet > to be determined, but probably initially a channel on element.io and > then eventually our own server. > > Some Fedora Teams, like the Magazine, have already moved from the > mailing list, and noted a significant increase in visiblity and > participation. The fact is, even those of us who proudly self- > identify > as "old school" are reluctant to sign up for yet-another-mailing-list > these days. It's a serious barrier to project entry. > > And IRC ... it's served us well, but... it's also not kept up, and > it's > *long* been a problem we've seen in attracting new contributors. More > and more new projects turn to Slack or Discord for their real-time > discussions. I'd like us to move to something open source while such > things are viable, and hopefully by doing so help them stay > competitive. Since we don't have a Matrix server up and running, this > is a little further off, but I wanted to mention it here. > > In any case, we plan to: > > * Bridge IRC and Matrix, so that you can stay on IRC and interact if > that's your preference. Freenode isn't going away anytime soon! > > * Plan to port zodbot to be a Matrix-native bot, so we can have > logged > meetings, cookies-with-badges, adamw "firing" people, etc. > > * Retire this list for new posts (tentatively, starting December > 1st), > and instead direct conversation to > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/c/project/council-discuss/60 > > * Set up a bot to automatically post summaries of discussion from > that > category to this list, so that long-term subscribers aren't left > out > > Note that unlike a "BB"-style web forum, you can interact with > discussion.fedoraproject.org via email, including getting individual > new posts and responding in your mail client. It isn't quite a > first-class experience, though -- there are many features which are > web > only. > > Any questions about any of this? Anything I haven't thought of? > > -- > Matthew Miller > <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Fedora Project Leader > _______________________________________________ > council-discuss mailing list -- > council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to > council-discuss-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list -- council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to council-discuss-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
